The one who is actually daft is the guy who claimed that US is helping Taiwan become democratic while apparently being fully aware of the fact that US itself isn't.

You create an image of the people you talk with and then argue with that image.

Nah, I read the imbecilic comments you write and reply to their content.

You look for fault in others. You look for reasons to feel or be righteous. You look for all this stuff. And sometimes, you find it where it isn’t.

You're just projecting here. I address what people are saying, and you consistently produce drivel in pretty much every one of your replies. You practically never engage with the subject, you just do name calling and character attacks. That's literally all you do.

Your style is broken. Your approach is broken. You vision of who you speak with is broken. You’ve forgotten that with very rare exception, all posters are people.

Why do you think I care what you think about my style. You're not a person I respect or whose opinions I value. To me you're just a troll following me around producing background noise.

And if the topic of persuasion or decency doesn’t seem substantive to you, then you really need to reflect on why that’s your response.

Respect is earned. If you want people to take you seriously then make actual arguments to support whatever point you want to make instead of spending your time trying to psychoanalyze people and make personal attacks while whinging about not being respected. It's frankly pathetic.

Let’s add: you responded quickly to the tankie part. What say you about hating people for their country of origin? Because you’ve shown active disdain as soon as you think you know they’re from places.

That's completely and utterly false. It's just the caricature you've created of me. I don't hate people based on their country of origin at all. There are plenty of people I respect in the west, you just don't happen to be one of them. What I have disdain for are shills for the burger empire such as yourself.

[–] APassenger@lemmy.one 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

See... that's the thing. I never said...

You're off your rocker. I'm tired of being completely misrepresent while you say I said things I didn't.

And that, is how I know you hate. You do it persistently.

Your replies in the branch are as off topic as my own. And you know it. No high ground left.

I'll add: I'm not that worked up about whether I'm respected. It's that you throw your disrepect around potential and quasi-allies for not being pure enough. I've stated this clearly multiple times.

To add further: posting a slew of links criticizing the US for trying yo help spread Democracy when your aspersions go far further... isn't the kind of critical thinking you present it to be.

It's like me saying soviet Russia wanted more communism in the world. It's obvious.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The difference is that you're the one who sealions in to my threads and starts making personal attacks. I just reply to your smears, but you're the one who always initiates. And nowhere have I made any purity tests for anyone, that's just a thing you made up. But I'm sure you're going to claim I've somehow misrepresented you once again.

[–] APassenger@lemmy.one -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

🤡

Come on now. You attack without much provocation at all. But there's no hate or purity tests?

That's a damn lie.

What you've missed (clearly) in a lot of this is I could be an ally on some topics but you can't stop lashing out in some "righteous" crusade.

If persuasion were a battlefield, you'd be killing your own.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Show me a single example where I sealion into your posts and start attacking you.

What you've missed clearly is that your tactic of attacking people who disagree with your and namecalling doesn't make your an appealing ally for anyone. Maybe you should take your own advice, do some self reflection and stop lashing out at people while accusing others of being mean to you. Just a thought.

I've been using lemmy for around 4 years now, and we've had pleasant and constructive discussion here that whole time. Then a bunch of redditors showed up and started flinging feces.

[–] APassenger@lemmy.one -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Ah. The source of your anger.

The local Overton window shifted. You'd found a bubble you liked and now it's different and more perspectives are flooding in. Not all perspectives are informed, but you are being credibly challenged now.

The big fish in a small pond finds itself in a different body of water.

I'm not insulting people until very recently and it's only you. You cast a wide net with your anger and it's helping no one. And it hurts your cause.

I never said you sealion me. Not once. You keep seeing things as said that aren't. And then you complain about reading comprehension of your sparring partners.

It's shameful. And I'm not using that lightly. You act shamefully. It's fucking embarrassing the way you're trying to advance ideas by insulting people.

Other people are here. Adapt.

If we need to have a thread about maladaptive rhetoric so you cam deem my discussion on topic I'll point out that posting a single clown emoji or vomit one is not topical, either. It only further lowers discourse and makes you into an easily discarded clown.

And I doubt you want that.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No, my complaint isn't about the Overton window shifting. In fact, I've repeatedly explained to you what my actual complaint is which you continue to ignore while making straw man arguments.

My complaint, once again is about people such as yourself sealioning into threads to make personal attacks when you read something you disagree with. I've explicitly said that I welcome disagreement and genuine discussion that's respectful and informed. And I've asked you repeatedly to consider doing that if you're not happy with the type replies you're seeing when you start trolling.

You never said I sealion you, but you keep trying to make some sort of equivalence between you jumping in to start fights and me reacting in kind. In other words, treat others the way you want to be treated or grow a thicker skin.

The only thing that's shameful here is what you're doing and your utter lack of self awareness.

I have no intention to adapting to reddit style trolling where people drown out meaningful discussion with namecalling and personal attacks. Again, respect is earned, and if you want to have a respectful discussion then engage with people respectfully. It's not a hard concept.

[–] APassenger@lemmy.one -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I'm not jumping in to start fights. I jump in to ask why you're doing it.

There's a difference. Clown faces (a pattern,, not an instance), vomit emoji... all that is is you doing something for your feels and to feel better than. They do exactly zero for anything a normal, mature peraon would hope to generate.

You say you want meaningful exchange and you doggedly defend yourself as you bring the discourse down to single emoji and knee-jerk judgments.

You're creating an unhelpful dynamic. Being likeable helps. Being right is "logically" enough. For persuasion, it is a distant second on a good day.

Being more likeable and less glib can help. Or, You're not here to help. You're here to feel better than. Your choice and you get to choose, but be consistent. If it's the later, don't criticize it in others, please.

Let's go one further and I'll ask other than when I told you themat you required evidence and you were being a hypocrite, when did I demand evidence over and over? Or do you not know what sealioning is?

I'm not demanding evidence. I'm asking why you're so darn incivil to so many people. You look like an unsympathetic Don Quixote and it helps none of your points.

And if you're not here to persuade, why post so many of a specific kind of article.

Again. I don't follow you around. I'm in certain communities for a reason. And then you shit all over them.

It's daft, touched-in-the-head kind of behavior.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

It's weird that you keep asking why I reply to people in kind when I've explicitly explained why repeatedly. I get offended when people sealion into my posts and make personal attacks against me. There's no great mystery here.

I don't feel the need to act mature or dignified with people I consider to be assholes. When somebody slides into my threads to call me a tankie, I have zero respect for that person. It's that simple. I'm not the one creating the unhelpful dynamic, I just respond in kind to people who attack me because they don't like the content of what I say.

Being more likeable and less glib can help, but none of us are perfect. My personal character flaw is that I don't take it well when people attack me in this way.

I'm here to persuade people who are willing to have a civil discussion engaging with the topic of the post. You'll find that I'm always civil talking to people who are civil in kind regardless of whether I agree with them or not.

So, when you see me post in certain communities you frequent, and you have a differing opinion then feel free to explain what you disagree on and have a discussion about it. Be the change you want to see in the world and all that.

[–] APassenger@lemmy.one -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You need to Google "sea lion troll."

You're not using the term correctly. Or keep doing it wrong, up to you.

I understand that you've answered that you get to decide if a person is worthy of respect or dignity or decency. I find it highly ironic since you seem to exist on a part of the spectrum that would want those things for (almost?) everyone. That may not be true, but you seem inclined to push socialist ideas. I'm very open to that, personally. Many Americans are; the culture wars are used to distract and divide and it works.

If I've persisted in my question on why you become knee-jerk incivil, it's because the answers so far have landed as "because." Your most recent response hits more authentically and I appreciate it. I've sparred with trolls. I've sparred with those who genuinely disagree for good (and bad) reasons. Authentic, mature conversation appeals to me.

Dropping to name calling (emojis) based on the first reply on a thread lowers discourse. I'll stop here. I just wish that shit didn't happen so much.

I'm not your opponent but you sure set out that way when you correctly determined I'm in and from the US. The combativeness was not deserved, it was off-putting and I am much less likely to want to engage. Shrug.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 year ago

It basically comes down to the paradox of tolerance. I don't think it's worth trying to have an actual discussion when people are trolling me which simply sucks up my time and validates what they're doing.

Again, I didn't determine you're my opponent based on the fact that you're from US. That seemed to be the case base on the derogatory personal attacks you made against me, such as calling me a tankie. That was off-putting to me, and hence why I didn't see any point in trying to have a mature discussion. I'm perfectly happy to change my mind if you're willing to have civil discourse as we're having now.