this post was submitted on 13 Apr 2024
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[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 36 points 6 months ago (2 children)

It's demonstrably not, but westerners just keep clinging to their failed system lacking the courage and imagination to try anything different.

[–] pulaskiwasright@lemmy.ml 4 points 6 months ago (7 children)
[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 27 points 6 months ago (1 children)
[–] pulaskiwasright@lemmy.ml 2 points 6 months ago (2 children)

What definition of proletarian democracy? It’s not well defined and means vastly different things to different people.

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 23 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (5 children)

Democracy in which the bourgeoisie are denied political agency as class relations are in the process of being dissolved. The problem isn't actually democracy, the problem is that in a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie (democracy where capitalists are in control) capitalist interests override democracy.

Not that democracy doesn't have problems inherently, but they're pretty minor compared to the problems we are facing.

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[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 18 points 6 months ago

A brutal crackdown on the ability of the bourgeoisie to influence elections, buy politicians, and hold office, such that liberals will crow about "human rights" and "freedom" being violated. We can draw fine distinctions between different systems, but fundamentally they still fall on the same side of the fence.

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 22 points 6 months ago (8 children)
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[–] KoboldKomrade@hexbear.net 20 points 6 months ago
[–] BurgerPunk@hexbear.net 19 points 6 months ago

What they do in Cuba, or the PRC, or the former USSR

[–] Infamousblt@hexbear.net 17 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Almost any other kind of democracy. Representative democracy is better than fascism but it is the worst form of democracy

[–] pulaskiwasright@lemmy.ml -2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Worse than what form of democracy exactly?

[–] Alsephina@lemmy.ml 17 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Everything else people have mentioned in the comments. Proletarian democracy, democratic centralism, participatory democracy, etc.

Well, the first two are really just a way of saying socialism.

[–] pulaskiwasright@lemmy.ml -4 points 6 months ago

Democratic centrism is more of a rule or process or principle. It isn’t even a form of government and it’s compatible with many forms of government.

Proletarian democracy isn’t well defined so I can’t say anything since it means 1000 different things to 1000 different people and often does include representative democracy.

Participatory democracy similarly is a spectrum and is compatible with representative democracy.

So to actually talk about this you would need to be more specific about how the “better” form of government would work.

[–] sadschmuck@hexbear.net 15 points 6 months ago

Participatory democracy

[–] sandman@lemmy.ca -2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Ask the people of El Salvador, and they'll say having a dictator is better because democracy has demonstrably failed them.

El Salvador under a dictator actually has less gang violence than Mexico under a democracy.

Westerners will blind themselves to this reality, though. They always do.

[–] pulaskiwasright@lemmy.ml -2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

When dictatorships go badly, they go extremely badly. Far more badly than even a broken representative democracy. The odd of having a sold string of reasonably good dictators are vanishingly small. A good dictator is the best form of government. Good luck maintaining that though.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 6 points 6 months ago (3 children)

When a bourgeois democratic state goes badly, it tears off its liberal mask and reveals the fascism beneath. The capitalist class dispenses with democratic theater and rules by naked dictatorship. Western liberals shouldn’t wonder why fascism is on the rise in the West: it’s because Western monopoly capitalism is increasingly going mask-off. Monthly Review, 2014: The Return of Fascism in Contemporary Capitalism

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[–] BrundleFly2077@sh.itjust.works 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)
[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (25 children)

consider yourself enlightened https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_centralism

edit: love how you can state basic facts and libs start seething

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