my favorite part about these kinds of comments is that the article they commonly cite basically says there was no tiananmen massacre because the massacre happened outside of the square in the rest of beijing, and that's treated like it's some big gotcha

[–] wildbus8979@sh.itjust.works -2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

The fact that the official statements are decisively false is a gotcha yes. Why would you trust the rest of the reporting and official story when you know they lied about basic things like this. What makes you think that the number they throw around is anywhere close to reality when they can't even tell you where the events happen?

It's not like China even denies that people died.

You can look at the pictures I linked too, plenty of dead people in them. These are available from the Chinese state.

[–] lobelia581@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I'm less concerned about the specifics of where it happened and how many people died, and more concerned about how military personnel shot live ammunition at citizens.

According to the Tiananmen Papers, a collection of internal Communist party files, soldiers started using live ammunition at around 10.30pm, after trying and failing to disperse the crowd with tear gas and rubber bullets.

[–] wildbus8979@sh.itjust.works 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Yes I know it's crazy right, even the Chinese government doesn't deny they shot people after at least a dozen police/soliders were killed and immolated and others taken hostage... In a similar situation, I am absolutely sure that the west would not use lethal force...

I don't think you are proving the point you think you're proving.

[–] lobelia581@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

you're right, i think we're in agreement. the side with guns and tanks retaliated against the side with bricks and molotov cocktails by opening fire

[–] wildbus8979@sh.itjust.works 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

No, I don't think we are. So tell me, how would the west react in a similar situation?

Not fifteen years before in the US the national guards shot at a group of 300 protestors who hadn't been occupying the place for months, didn't have Molotov cocktails, didn't take hostages, didn't immolate anyone. They killed four, and wounded nine.

[–] shiftymccool@programming.dev 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, yeah... This government is shitty, that government is shitty, let's have a big, shitty government dick swinging contest!

[–] wildbus8979@sh.itjust.works 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

What do you think the state should do when a group, funded with millions of foreign dollars, starts burning and kidnapping police/soldiers?

If this happened here y'all would be the first to enlist, I guarantee it.