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What is unnecessary gendered? (beehaw.org)

submitted 1 year ago by Idrunkenlysignedup@beehaw.org to c/askbeehaw@beehaw.org

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I was watching pro golf coverage on the news and it seems so odd that men and women compete separately - same goes with pro bowling. Just seems weird to me that a game of skill is gendered when you can't even raise an argument that someone might have an advantage because of what's between their legs.

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[–] lorgo_numputz@beehaw.org 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The French language :)

[–] CylustheVirus@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago

And the German language! Mark Twain has a whole essay about it.

“Every noun has a gender, and there is no sense or system in the distribution; so the gender of each must be learned separately and by heart. There is no other way. To do this one has to have a memory like a memorandum-book. In German, a young lady has no sex, while a turnip has. Think what overwrought reverence that shows for the turnip, and what callous disrespect for the girl. See how it looks in print -- I translate this from a conversation in one of the best of the German Sunday-school books:

Gretchen: "Wilhelm, where is the turnip?"

Wilhelm: "She has gone to the kitchen."

Gretchen: "Where is the accomplished and beautiful English maiden?"

Wilhelm. "It has gone to the opera.”

[–] lorgo_numputz@beehaw.org 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Acceptable counter-argument: "The English language isn't gendered enough."

[–] HelixTitan@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

Counter counter argument: English is ideal with gender neutral, allowing for it easily be learned, allowing it to be the best for programming etc. English doesnt need the silly gendering of like every other language, and by being neutral it is inherently inclusive imo

[–] nfld0001@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

What do you mean by that? 🤔

My take on it is that English doesn’t have enough variety in gendered words, whether that means binary, non-binary, or neutral options. In which case…yeah, come to mention it, you might be onto a perspective I didn’t think of.

People ought to be have range in how they express themselves, and I’d suppose there isn’t enough. I had been in favor of increasing the range and popularity of neutral and non-binary terms for a while now. I still am, but I don’t think that has to be mutually exclusive with increasing the range of gendered options, either. Perhaps part of resolving gendering issues in language isn’t just providing more neutral options, but more gendered options. If someone wishes to identify with masculine or feminine labeling, I think they ought to be able to.

Or maybe another lens to this is that there are “gender neutral” terms that, through context and history, have come to carry a sort of implicit gendering to them. I’m not sure if that’s a challenge in linguistics or a challenge in how some people may think.

All an interesting way to frame this kind of thing that I hadn’t considered before. If you have your own details to this you’d like to mention, I’m sure it’d be insightful to read. My language experience outside of English only extends to Spanish and some beginning bits of Dutch, and I’m in dire need of brushing up on both 🫠.