this post was submitted on 12 Jul 2023
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So at what point do we consider cyberattacks to be acts of war and actually fucking do something more than hand-wringing
What are your expectations here? Bombing Shanghai and toppling the world economy in retaliation for stealing unclassified emails?
Sanctions? More political pressure? Anything but bending over and letting China ream us in the ass? Give them an inch and they take a mile. We KNOW this, so why are we still capitulating?
You are obviously aware that "we" do it all the time as well - but no sane intelligence agency will go out shouting in press "WE DID STEAL CHINESE OFFICIALS' EMAIL FOLKS, OUR AGENTS ARE TOP CYBERCOMMANDOS AMD LAST WEEK WE TOOK OVER A COMPUTER IN IRAN AND RECORDED THEIR MINISTER'S SECRET MEETING" Though actually Americans did go out shouting once recently, calling out Russia before they invaded Ukraine and making sure everyone gets the message "we know what russia is up to and we're ready". It was considered an extraordinary strategy when the sitting US president effectively broadcasted military intel.
@Caradoc879 @1bluepixel Who will punish the USA for collecting and selling data of the whole world's population? Not to mention all the data FBI has access to without anyone's permission. Talking about emails, if you happen to use Outlook mobile app, it downloads all your mail to their servers first before your emails are available to you. Android basically forces you to backup your own photos unless you explicitly force disable the "backup" to, again, their servers, in the USA.
None of what you've described will control China's behavior. The window of opportunity to effectively manage their belligerence was closed shortly after we allowed them into the WTO, which was when we had greater leverage to shoehorn their development than we do now.
Right now we can only manage to have a marginal impact on their behavior with the tools we have now. Everything else is just a waiting game until our economies can adjust and de-risk while looking for more market disruptions with which we can gain an edge over China.
If you really care enough about this, there are plenty of tools to which you can use to gain essential knowledge into cybersecurity and other critical technology sectors, and learn yourself into the field of information security.
You could gain an edge over China by developing your own things rather than disrupting theirs, stop the thief/vandal mentality.
Also the cold war mentality.
We do, and your country steals them.
China is literally the analogue of the Soviet Union, they've even studied how they failed. Is this cold war mentality in the room with us right now, Mr. Zhang?
How do you politically pressure them exactly? Other countries you might threaten to cut off aid or recind arms deals or refuse plane sales, etc. China doesn't rely on any of those things. In fact Boeing relies on China to buy planes to stay profitable. How are you supposed to sanction your 3rd largest trading partner which your first and second partner also relies on. The allies would either revolt or the global economy goes into depression.
People always talk about sanctions, but unless you're sanctioning Cuba or North Korea, sanctions can be as damaging to the countries doing the sanctioning. Fully sanctioning China would essentially mean cutting ourselves off from the world's top manufacturer, which would hurt the U.S. way more than China now that their domestic economy is in full swing.
Not to mention that most if not will American-based multinationals would never go along with it.
People always talk about sanctions, but unless you're sanctioning Cuba or North Korea, sanctions can be as damaging to the countries doing the sanctioning. Fully sanctioning China would essentially mean cutting ourselves off from the world's top manufacturer, which would hurt the U.S. way more than China now that their domestic economy is in full swing.
Not to mention that most if not will American-based multinationals would never go along with it.