this post was submitted on 20 Jan 2024
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chapotraphouse
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Collapse Feminism by Alice Cappelle goes into some of the competing narratives/forces in this realm a bit.
There have been various trends in recent years. for example recently "Trad" stuff has been surprisingly effective in flipping the script on liberal feminism and channeling frustrations into "retvrn" right wing directions, but its hard to say if it's achieved the same reach as manosphere stuff, I'd say no probably
I'm not convinced the "trad" stuff for women is real at all. It seems to be an online persona type of grift. It's a way of getting eyeballs on instagram pages by showing a woman walking through a wheat field and talking about having babies is much more pleasant than working. I'm pretty sure the target audience for that kind of stuff is men, not women.
I don't think that's entirely true, I know at least one woman IRL who's gotten into it a bit and even converted to christianity and shit, and even if it's not really taking off wildly, it does present a challenge that liberal, choice-focused (rather than liberation focused) feminism doesn't have great responses to, namely "what if I freely choose a traditional, even subservient role?"
anyhow I'm sure theres an ebook of it around somewhere I'd love to hear criticism of the book tbh, I just read it late last year
yeah I know that some people are doing it, what I more mean is that I'm not convinced that "being trad" is anything other than a different consumer identity, rather than a serious challenge to liberal feminism. It's that thing capitalism does by subverting any criticism into itself, but in this case it did it instantaneously.
maybe I'm just not understanding here... so what? is the manosphere stuff that the OP asked about also just a different consumer identity?
anyhow I don't have strong feelings about it, its not a huge movement thankfully IME, but I do think its more than just some online grift primarily directed at men, its a conservative reaction against feminism and I think the book makes a decent case for taking it seriously (in that modern feminism needs to be clear it's about liberation not just choice, to oversimplify a bit)
Yeah, you're right. I'm probably being overly pessimistic about the state of most political outlooks in the west. I don't take much of it seriously because I don't see my fellow Americans as having coherent politics outside of consumer identires. It's all random fluff in people's heads given to them by marketing algorithms and rapidly shifting trends and it feels like nothing ever sticks.
I should probably try to take people more seriously. I also don't take conservatives seriously in making cogent demands, or their organizational capacity (outside of the very rich ones). I view their entire ideology as cooked up after the fact, after they already have conditions they want, then most of their demands are about intensifying what already exists for them.
I work with constant exposure to a wide swath of the population in my area and it’s definitely real. It’s the same thing as rockabilly ppl where they’re making a hobby out of appearing like the people of a past time.
Or military coats from former soviet countries yeah haha who'd do that