this post was submitted on 18 Jan 2024
166 points (95.1% liked)

Star Trek

10600 readers
57 users here now

r/startrek: The Next Generation

Star Trek news and discussion. No slash fic...

Maybe a little slash fic.


New to Star Trek and wondering where to start?


Rules

1 Be constructiveAll posts/comments must be thoughtful and balanced.


2 Be welcomingIt is important that everyone from newbies to OG Trekkers feel welcome, no matter their gender, sexual orientation, religion or race.


3 Be truthfulAll posts/comments must be factually accurate and verifiable. We are not a place for gossip, rumors, or manipulative or misleading content.


4 Be niceIf a polite way cannot be found to phrase what it is you want to say, don't say anything at all. Insulting or disparaging remarks about any human being are expressly not allowed.


5 SpoilersUtilize the spoiler system for any and all spoilers relating to the most recently-aired episodes, as well as previews for upcoming episodes. There is no formal spoiler protection for episodes/films after they have been available for approximately one week.


6 Keep on-topicAll submissions must be directly about the Star Trek franchise (the shows, movies, books etc.). Off-topic discussions are welcome at c/quarks.


7 MetaQuestions and concerns about moderator actions should be brought forward via DM.


Upcoming Episodes

Date Episode Title
11-14 LD 5x05 "Starbase 80?!"
11-21 LD 5x06 "Of Gods and Angles"
11-28 LD 5x07 "Fully Dilated"
12-05 LD 5x08 "Upper Decks"
12-12 LD 5x09 "Fissue Quest"

Episode Discussion Archive


In Production

Strange New Worlds (2025)

Section 31 (2025-01-24)

Starfleet Academy (TBA)

In Development

Untitled comedy series


Wondering where to stream a series? Check here.


Allied Discord Server


founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] ook_the_librarian@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I found it strange the claim started with the language "a Trolley Problem" and concluded with the language "the trolley problem".

It seems one could make any choice into "a" trolley problem. But Tuvix problem is certainly not "the trolley problem". This is about emergence of consciousness. In the trolley problem, the characters cease to exist. Neither choice here would end, say, Tuvok's consciousness.

[–] T156@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Neither choice here would end, say, Tuvok’s consciousness.

Arguable, since the result is neither Tuvok nor Neelix, but a new one based on those two. They're not active, seperate consciousness stuffed into a Tuvixian body.

And unwinding Tuvix ends Tuvix's consciousness. Neither Tuvok or Neelix keep Tuvix as part of themselves afterwards, he'd basically die if that was to happen.

[–] ook_the_librarian@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Are you claiming it is in fact equivalent to the standard "trolley problem"? (I don't think you are, but if you are, I'll add)

If the point is even "arguable", I claim that is enough to distinguish it from the trolley problem, because that argument doesn't come up there.

That was my point. I agree that the consciousness that emerged is distinct from Tuvok (or of course Neelix, but I felt like an ass last time I used the "say Tuvok" construction).

[–] T156@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Are you claiming it is in fact equivalent to the standard “trolley problem”? (I don’t think you are, but if you are, I’ll add)

Not exactly, was more thinking along the lines of both choices involving an end to the consciousness of one or the other. Either Tuvok and Neelix are held in limbo/non-existent from that point onwards, or Tuvix is unwound.

If the point is even “arguable”, I claim that is enough to distinguish it from the trolley problem, because that argument doesn’t come up there.

But I am curious, would it not? From my understanding, at the end of the shift, you're still sacrificing one life to save two, or two to save one, which seems like it would harken back to the fundamentals of the issue. Assuming that no cloning or replicative shenanigans takes place, either Neelix/Tuvok are retained, or Tuvix is.

That said, there was some leeway in that Janeway had no urgent time-pressure to return them back to their bodies at the time, unlike with something like Transport-split Kirk. She mentions needing her crew back, but that could easily happen at some point in the future, and that might alter the variables of the problem, since part of the trolley problem is that there isn't any time to take a third option, nor get help from other places.

[–] ook_the_librarian@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago

Ahhh... I see. When I said "end", I was thinking permanently, irreparably. Not just pause.

I like your plan of giving Tuvix a long and fulfilling life while the rest of the crew does fuck all lost in the delta quadrant.