this post was submitted on 10 Dec 2023
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[NakeyJakey] Bethesda's Game Design Was Outdated a Decade Ago (www.youtube.com)
submitted 11 months ago by nanoUFO@sh.itjust.works to c/games@sh.itjust.works
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[–] abraxas@sh.itjust.works 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Stop using “it’s a bethesda game” as an argument

Alright. It's fun to me and had they done what everyone else is asking for I wouldn't have bought the game. And I know of thousands upon thousands fo people who feel the same way. How's that for an argument? Also bad?

It’s weak and biased

Says someone who is not lacking bias. And who absolutely doesn't want to have a civil conversation because opening that way is just going to get your interlocutor's back up.

It also deflects the fact that Bethesda games are actually marketed as RPG’s so they have to be compared to what available from other studios when talking flaws and features

This is just a definition fallacy in action. RPGs are a massive genre with massive walls between the subdomains. Nobody ever expects a Bethesda game to compare with Final Fantasy, or Final Fantasy to compare to Baldur's Gate. Or Baldur's Gate to compare to Persona. Or any of those to my dusty copy of Advanced Dungeons and Dragons 2nd Edition.

I am a huge fan of Gothic Metal, which technically falls under "Rock and Roll". But nobody compares the Beatles to Cradle of Filth.

Bad AI and meaningless quests are not stylistic choices, they’re weaknesses

I never said Starfield has bad AI or meaningless quests. Therefore, I don't have to defend Bad AI or meaningless quests.

...I'm actually stopping here. I'm out of time, and everyone's hatred for Starfield is just becoming a toxic waste of my chill. It's unfortunate that in the entertainment community, some people just have to hate on things, and the more their interlocutor enjoys them, the more emotional they become. Like if Starfield is not an objectively horrible game and every fan of it is not just stupid and wrong, there's something actually wrong in the universe. I spent three hours late night on my 3rd playthrough of Starfield, and I've been waiting all day to play three hours tonight and see if I can explore a specific quest chain I haven't done yet I heard is fucking phenomenal. And that's a LOT more fun than continuing to argue about it.

[–] guylacaptivite@sh.itjust.works 0 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Todd? Is that you? And I know you will read this, it's just human nature.

Yes it's a bad argument. It doesn't answer anything. You don't know thousands upon thousands of people not even mentionning gamers that you talked to that actually played the game and have nothing but good things to say about it. It's just unproven, unrelated statements. It would still be a bethesda game with all the things I've mentionned completely fixed. You just got caught by promises and brand recognition.

I myself said it's a 6. There's no hatred i just don't think it's the product of a great studio growing to be their best as I've thoroughly explained three times now. You just respond pointless straw man arguments when we bring forward valid criticism. You have to defend your points also, and they have to address the points others make. That's how debating work. You can't just say "but I like it" and be taken seriously.

You also don't seem to understand bias. I thought about things I didn't like and why. Contrary to you I explained with multiple examples why I came up with my opinion of Starfield but you just answer "It's a bethesda game". How is that a proper answer? And don't go with whataboutisms about how the map size is big though, Tell my why the AI got better. Tell me why the quests and choices are good and deep and why the 230000 voice lines make the game better. You go, that's how you debate. But no you only go back to "but I love it an millions do" on a post about a video (out of dozens) deep diving into the flaw of the game and studio. Tell me why my arguments are bad and why your NG+or whatever they worked so flaming hard on is correcting them.

Also don't pretend I'm not civil because you disagree and bring forward evidence of your claims. Address the criticism instead of hiding behind your fandom. Don't use straw man examples like the Beatles vs Cradle or NG+ addition bullshit unrelated arguments. It's such a bad faith argument you cannot be really believing it's in your favour. You are free to love it but this was a post about the flaws of Starfield and Bethesda as a whole and, most importantly, why. If you cannot bring anything more convincing than "it's a bethesda game what did you expect" then you are actually lying to yourself and you know what we are talking about. You just can't admit it to yourself, because you have to be Todd Howard himself or this doesn't make any sense.