this post was submitted on 05 Dec 2023
1392 points (96.0% liked)
Fuck Cars
9809 readers
281 users here now
This community exists as a sister community/copycat community to the r/fuckcars subreddit.
This community exists for the following reasons:
- to raise awareness around the dangers, inefficiencies and injustice that can come from car dependence.
- to allow a place to discuss and promote more healthy transport methods and ways of living.
You can find the Matrix chat room for this community here.
Rules
-
Be nice to each other. Being aggressive or inflammatory towards other users will get you banned. Name calling or obvious trolling falls under that. Hate cars, hate the system, but not people. While some drivers definitely deserve some hate, most of them didn't choose car-centric life out of free will.
-
No bigotry or hate. Racism, transphobia, misogyny, ableism, homophobia, chauvinism, fat-shaming, body-shaming, stigmatization of people experiencing homeless or substance users, etc. are not tolerated. Don't use slurs. You can laugh at someone's fragile masculinity without associating it with their body. The correlation between car-culture and body weight is not an excuse for fat-shaming.
-
Stay on-topic. Submissions should be on-topic to the externalities of car culture in urban development and communities globally. Posting about alternatives to cars and car culture is fine. Don't post literal car fucking.
-
No traffic violence. Do not post depictions of traffic violence. NSFW or NSFL posts are not allowed. Gawking at crashes is not allowed. Be respectful to people who are a victim of traffic violence or otherwise traumatized by it. News articles about crashes and statistics about traffic violence are allowed. Glorifying traffic violence will get you banned.
-
No reposts. Before sharing, check if your post isn't a repost. Reposts that add something new are fine. Reposts that are sharing content from somewhere else are fine too.
-
No misinformation. Masks and vaccines save lives during a pandemic, climate change is real and anthropogenic - and denial of these and other established facts will get you banned. False or highly speculative titles will get your post deleted.
-
No harassment. Posts that (may) cause harassment, dogpiling or brigading, intentionally or not, will be removed. Please do not post screenshots containing uncensored usernames. Actual harassment, dogpiling or brigading is a bannable offence.
Please report posts and comments that violate our rules.
founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Towing capacity, payload weight, carrying 3 more people, bed width, drivetrain? I think many trucks are way too big, and it's silly to own a big work truck if you just use it to go to the grocery store but it's really about so much more than bed size.
Let's be honest, most people with trucks that large rarely have passengers, rarely even approach the payload for the bed, and they never tow anything.
Yeah sure but I guess my point was that it's a false equivalency. The truck on the right is massively more capable than the one on the left. I certainly don't need one that big and most people don't.
Yeah it's about
BIG TRUCK MAKE ME FEEL LIKE MAN. MAKE ME FEEL LIKE BIG BOY. LOOK ME DRIVE BIG VEHICLE SO YOU KNOW I'M IMPORTANT.
LOOK AT ME!!!
Legit I know guys that don't even need one for work or anything, just get one for ego
Maybe sometimes, but it's also just a massively more capable vehicle. Sometimes the simplest answer is the truth.
Something tells me you have an oversized truck in your driveway...
I drive a VW golf and I love it.
It's really not.
It's about getting past emission standards and pandering to people who don't understand enough is enough.
They're also hazards as the increased hood length and height create massive blind spots that have caused a rise in collisions and deaths.
I think both are true. The truck on the right is super capable, and also dangerous, inefficient, unnecessary for most people.
As a payload.
I'm not sure if you can fill it to load capacity even with lead bricks.
Or if you want to carry people, you can use this:
. For carrying not people you can remove seats. It's even roughly same size.
Oh, marshrutka
So many good memories, got replaced with better buses in my city
Bless your city. I know one city in Belgorod Oblast that still 100% microbuses.
But a van and a truck are used for different things. Your not going to see a van around the farm for example because it just isn't that useful for farm work. Just like your not going to see a truck out delivering packages because it just isn't the useful for that use case. Many of these vehicles have the exact same frame and engion just with a different body on top for whatever best fits the use case.
In addition to the payload. Payload goes in the back! Fill it with stones then put five men in it to shovel the stones. You'd need two vans for the same purpose. And if it's roughly the same size, what's the problem? Vans like that can be nice too, we see lots of Ford transits here in the states for tradesmen. Similar use case to what you're describing.
This was my take. Considering the bed is wider and deeper, that black truck can literally hold 4x what the other truck carries.
Also from a quick google, I only see a single mini-truck retailer within 500 miles of me and they only sell very-used, with worse exhausts and MPGs than an F150.
Most people don't need that bigger truck, but if they do that smaller truck won't cut it.
Please show us a kei truck with less fuel economy then any truck sold in the US in the last lets say 15 years. Hell you can even remove the exhaust altogether and you will be lucky to get a truck double the fuel need of any of those "mini-trucks" as you call them.
A quick google suggests "real world" use of modern microtrucks is 28ish mpg without heavily modding it or super-efficient variants. Older Kei trucks are lower. Actually, much MUCH lower according to minitrucktalk. 22-23.
I know someone with a 2021 Silverado Hybrid holding at 29mpg. And they regularly lug full loads that would take four trips from a Kei truck. Admittedly the "hybrid" part stops mattering with full loads, but I guarantee Kei isn't going to have great MPG numbers carrying 1000lbs of cargo.
Minitruck owners (sometimes rightly) lean on a soapbox where they and those around them rarely lug any cargo. IMO, might as well drive a Prius at that point but whatever. But ya gotta stop the circlejerk enough to acknowledge that someone who does regularly carry a full cab worth of stuff is in a better position with a normal truck.
Flip-side, very few people need a truck. And those that don't need a truck also don't need a kei truck.
Thanks for providing some info, sadly the 29mpg on the hybrid is not the norm or good (had to convert it to 8.1l/100kms like a normal person) it looks like your buddy is doing some great mileage compared to say the info from https://www.fuelly.com/car/chevrolet/silverado_1500/2011?engineconfig_id=&bodytype_id=&submodel_id=62. As for the fuel use of a kei truck, I have only seen those sort of numbers on high speed highway driving as they are just not geared for it. I would love to be able to by a smaller truck, or even a new version of an older one. The issue is we are not given many options other then a kei truck designed for the urban focused Japanese market or a stupid massive van with a 4 foot bed.
For a load-bearing vehicle it absolutely is. And I showed that it compared favorably to these minitrucks. This whole thread is about comparing trucks to trucks. If you need to carry shit, you are hurting the environment if you buy a mini-truck over a Silverado or F150.
Well, 10 years goes a long way. You literally picked a 2011 Silverado. Perhaps look at 2023 numbers on the same site?
As for Kei, as I said it's hard to get a fair chance when the only places nearby sell heavily-used older vehicles. Gas mileage has largely skyrocketed of late because Auto manufacturers are getting scared.
But ultimately, If you have any truck and don't need its carrying ability, you're an asshole. I think the case of a japanese mini-truck being the "best choice" is ultimately too rare to hold your breath for.
A step further, the REAL sad truth is that most minitrucks aren't even legal in the US without being modified to a max speed of 25mph because they don't meet safety and emission standards for road vehicles. That's why so many around here are old. Before 1998, they're grandfathered in and people in other countries that don't grandfather old vehicles are offloading them.
Do we really want to be cheering on unsafe high-emission vehicles as the "cure" to the F150?
It does not show that, it showed almost nothing other then your one truck gets middling gas mileage and then you said people on a minitruck forum say they don't haul stuff. There was as far as I can see no comparison of load to load capacity, avg fuel economy or anything other then you like your buddies 2021 silverado.
your link lists MPG of 21.82 for 2023, that is almost 1/3 worse then your friend.
The legal issues are a issue not because these are unsafe or high-emission (they are not). They are a major issue because the auto industry has fed you that tripe and like a lot of US consumers you bought it. These are not good on gas, they have convinced people that 29mpg in a hybrid that costs as much as a house is good.
I like many other people do have the occasional need for a truck, and in no world would you catch me in anything made in north America for the last 20 years. Like many other people I had to buy a very old truck (carberated v8 that gets 14ish mpg btw) and it sits by my barn until it is needed. The "cure" to the f150 is just the option to buy a old f150 or any other truck not made into a 5 seat van like monstrosity. I would love to have the option to buy a new truck that was small, be it a kei or a domestic. But I don't.
Agree to disagree.
That is for a non-Hybrid Silverado, and my friend has a hybrid. Seems to make sense.
That is sorta tinfoil. There is a process in most states to get ANY vehicle street-legal. But Kei trucks don't just need safety features retrofitted, apparently they lack a sufficient roll cage to pass inspections for valid safety concerns. Even Kei fans can't agree on whether it's more or less safe in a crash than a motorcycle.
As for emissions, in a lot of states you just have to pass standard EPA emissions guidelines like any other vehicle. Apparently that's very difficult for a Kei truck to do. Perhaps it uses a gallon or two less per hundred miles, but its emissions are worse.
Lots of Kei truck fans out there bitch about how the EPA should have better things to do than care about fehicle emissions, but I'd think a "fuck cars" community would care about vehicle emissions.
So your viewpoint is entirely about money. Just be straight with it.
Why is that? Newer vehicles tend to be safer in collisions and better on emissions than the equivalent older vehicle.
Circa 2000 F150s rate as low as 10-11MPG. New F150s rate as high as 25MPG. And new F150s are a lot safer to drive. I'll ask again, is this entire rant of yours just about money? Because maybe I'm the wrong person to respond to if you're just cheap. I get it, I'd rather take a bus myself than have a car payment.
You came to a community called "Fuck Cars" and your take away is they are too negative about, cars? Did you think this was "Fuck Cars Sensually"?
...yes?
We really need a "Fuck cars sensually" made
To the tune of "Fuck Her Gently?"
You don't always have to fuck cars hard
In fact sometimes that's not right to do
More as a community on Lemmy, But I would not say no to a tribute song.