this post was submitted on 29 Nov 2023
160 points (89.6% liked)

Asklemmy

43892 readers
781 users here now

A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions

Search asklemmy 🔍

If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!

  1. Open-ended question
  2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
  3. Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
  4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
  5. An actual topic of discussion

Looking for support?

Looking for a community?

~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

I just got up from conversation with a couple of older black men, that I said "well I got to go back to work and start cracking the whip." And it occurred to me then that it was probably a really insensitive stupid thing to say.

Sadly, it hadn't occurred to me until it's already said.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone 16 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I always thought “Indian summer” sounded very poetic, maybe related to the climate of the Indian subcontinent.

But it’s just garden variety American racism?
That’s so disappointing!

Does anyone know more about the etymology?

[–] LeftRedditOnJul1@lemmy.world 17 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Indian summer (n.)

"spell of warm, dry, hazy weather after the first frost" (happening anywhere from mid-September to nearly December, according to location), 1774, North American English (also used in eastern Canada), perhaps so called because it was first noted in regions then still inhabited by Indians, in the upper Mississippi valley west of the Appalachians, or because the Indians first described it to the Europeans. No evidence connects it with the color of fall leaves, or to a season of renewed Indian attacks on settlements due to renewed warm weather (a widespread explanation dating at least to the 1820s).

Source: Etymonline

[–] vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 11 months ago

That’s not so bad!

I followed up the etymology of “zipper head” above so I was prepared for waaaaaaaaay worse.

[–] livus@kbin.social 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

That's so interesting. Like @vzq I had the wrong sense of the word "Indian" - I thought it was something the British came up with after they colonized India.

[–] Nemo@slrpnk.net 0 points 11 months ago

Well, and specifically, it's related to the concept of an Indian giver: The warm weather is "taken back" and impermanent.

[–] ArtieShaw@kbin.social 5 points 11 months ago

Not so much an etymology, but how it was used in pop culture:

Our local paper used to publish a cartoon and poem every fall. The piece was called Injun Summer, and it was printed every October from 1907-1992.

It's very much a relic of its era, which is to say "it was weird; really fucking weird." The image is lovely. The text is an old man telling a young boy a totally made up story. It's folksy, wistful and nostalgic. It talks about the past and how native spirits (literally ghosts) return to the land each fall. It's also written in the vernacular of what an old man in 1907 might sound like.

Personally, I don't think the complaints about racism were what caused them to stop printing it. I think it was the weirdness that just didn't appeal to anyone under the age of 50 (in 1992!).

The fist link shows the image with text. The second shows how it would have looked in print.

http://www.sewwug.org/images/injun_summer_2.pdf

https://drloihjournal.blogspot.com/2017/10/the-history-of-john-t-mccutcheons-1907.html