this post was submitted on 17 Nov 2023
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chapotraphouse
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idk why I don't hear anybody saying this but "from the river to the sea" is compatible with a one state solution of reintegration a la South Africa. Yes there will be internal violence. Yes the settlers will run and hide in gated communities within gated communities. Yes it will take over 100 years to become something resembling a normal country.
You’re cute for thinking that the solution for Israel will be as mild as it was for South Africa. The settlers will be removed and that won’t be pretty, they cannot exist peacefully with the Palestinians they treated as subhuman for more than 80 fucking years, it’s worse than South Africa, Apartheid pales in comparison to what’s happening in Palestine, Palestine is the equivalent of an open air concentration camp. And after that the Americans are next on the chopping block in terms of decolonial struggle and they will probably get nuked if I’m making predictions here. The future is going to be violent, as communists we can only assume world war three is inevitable and we should take individual action to insulate ourselves from the literal fallout. Comrades, I have a bunker full of beans, if you ask nicely, you can have them.
Fully agree this is far more extreme than South Africa, plus South Africa was <15% white, while a one state Palestine would be around 50% Jewish (and far more Palestinians than Israelis are under 18). Imo, the ideal coexistence would be administered by an eastern/global southern power, but however it's brought about, you'd need to abolish the current fascist "law of return" and give the Palestinian diaspora (over 6 million people, mostly in Jordan and Syria) right of return, reparations, etc.
Obviously deport all first generation settlers (>20% of Israel's current population) back to America and Europe, but it gets more complicated for a lot of people born there, and wouldn't really solve much imo. For one, roughly half or more of Israeli Jews are Arab Jews/Mizrahi (which would surprise some people seeing how white their government is). This is largely because, 1) intermarriage between Ashkenazis and Mizrahis has become common (if one of your parents are Ashkenazi and another Mizrahi, you're just considered Mizrahi), and 2) immigration, coercion, and kidnapping of Arab Jews from other countries was a big thing.
Mizrahis are indigenous to the Middle East, but they've essentially had their culture stolen and been forcibly assimilated. So "deporting all settlers" wouldn't solve much and would be pretty complicated to define. While Mizrahis aren't settlers, they've been indoctrinated their entire lives in the same way Ashkenazi Israelis are, and even attempt to prove themselves to the settlers by being even more fascist in a lot of cases. So unfortunately, any resistance and violence from settlers would be equally if not more likely from indigenous Mizrahis either way.
As sick and fascist as the Zionist entity is, I don't think South Africa style reintegration is a pipe dream. You have a lot of examples in history of this, look at reconciliation after the Rwandan genocide for one.
Forced deportations is unfeasable and frankly even talking about it makes us look bad. In a single, democratic Palestinian state a lot of settlers would leave of their own accord anyway.
South Africa is definitely the model that should be aspired to, however a two state solution is probably required as an intermediate step because Israeli’s are incredibly unhinged, in contrast to the rest of the Western world their young generation is actually more right wing than their boomers (75% of 18-35 year olds self identify as right wing).
Apartheid ended in South Africa because it became unviable in the long term. As well as the internal resistance on one hand, you had the country under sanctions and with an understanding that it would not be permitted to simply genocide the black population. This is the key difference with Israel - it’s importance to US imperialism, in contrast to South Africa which was not useful to the US, means that it has unlimited American backing. Thus, it has the green light to commit genocide, and the state is actually viable even in the long term.
With the Arab states other than Iran, Lebanon and Yemen having totally abandoned Palestine, a two state solution is realistically the most that can be achieved at this time. However a two state solution that leaves Palestine under the economic and military thumb of Israel, and under the dictatorship of corrupt Israeli hirelings (ie the Palestinian Authority) cannot be acceptable either.
Of course, if the US abandoned Israel or declined in power then there would be many other possibilities
While it doesn’t matter at all here, any Westerners talking about 1000 Oct 7’s in the real world would be being wilfully counterproductive
Right now, Israel is winning. They have deported a million people from northern Gaza and plan on depopulating it, they’re just bombing everything. What are we to do to Israel if they succeed in this genocide? They should face justice ideally by the Palestinian hand, Palestinian have laid out manifestos on what should happen to the Israelis and the vibe I get from them is that a giant nuremberg like trial should happen, but they will never get to that point so long as their is no unconditional surrender from Israel. Personally I think they should just deport all the Jews to the Russian oblast Lenin made for them and they shouldn’t be allowed to leave it, the ones they deport and don’t execute anyways. Deport the Jews in America too, that shit is also indigenous land, but Jews make up a fraction of the colonizers there so like that’s a nonissue with Palestine right now but we should be conscious of it, america is not an acceptable deportation location for Jews.
Why are you ranting about Jews in general and not Israelis specifically? Why are you advocating the deportation of Jews from America? That's just nazi shit.
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that comment wasn't just removeworthy, it was ban worthy. Weird this user is still with us. Talking about deporting Jews from the USA...