The consumption is the point. They just want candy not a meal. They want fucking marvelslop not Cinema.
Inb4 let people enjoy things, the mindset on display is a perfect member of capitalist society. A mindless consumption machine.
this post was submitted on 10 Nov 2023
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the_dunk_tank
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Please be fucking normalllll and yes let people enjoy things
Don't hate on fans and Marvel's popularity because the movies lack cinematic sophistry or is artistically stagnant
Hate because it's propaganda and infests people with
Let people enjoy critiquing the people critiquing the people who critique people who enjoy things.
Which is why “let people enjoy things” is a meaningless statement when separated from its original context, which is people insulting randos over random shit, which is exactly what is happening here.
It got perverted and used for generic treat defense, as all things eventually do, and of course was rendered completely meaningless in the process, but this does not justify the behavior of attacking those who do not deserve it, instead merely demonstrating how depraved liberals are and to what stretches they will go to prevent their blatant fascist tendencies from being unveiled.
When viewed through this lense, almost all modern usage of this term (notably except the top level comment you replied to) is completely meaningless.
But in this case, it is actually being used in its original intention, or, if it is not it’s original intention (idk I’m no internet history expert), it’s at least being used in a novel and unique way.
This is not “treat defense”. Me and the top level content have no treats they are even defending. Instead, it is “treat criticism”, a criticism of the “treat” of attacking and berating internet randos for no reason. That is a legitimate criticism, and is not a thought terminating cliche. It is a legitimate concern over the absurd toxicity present.
Unlike your very different action of totally not insulting me here.
https://hexbear.net/comment/4232675
No, it is. Your treat was criticized and you're blowing up all over this thread about it.
WHAT TREAT!??? WHAT TREAT!???
I HAVE NO CONNECTION TO MARVEL, I’VE SAID THAT SO MANY TIMES?
WHAT FUCKING TREAT AM I DEFENDING??
BECAUSE RIGHT NOW IT LOOKS LIKE THE ONLY “TREAT” IM DEFENDING IS MY OWN FUCKING DESIRE FOR INNOCENT RANDOM PEOPLE NOT TO BE INSULTED AND IF THAT MAKES ME A TREAT DEFENDER THAN IM FUCKING PROUD OF IT
IF HAVING FUCKING EMPATHY, EVEN FOR RANDOM FUCKERS WHO LIKE SHOWS I HATE, MAKES ME A TREAT DEFENDER, THEN I’LL BE A TREAT DEFENDER AS MUCH AS I FUCKING WANT, AND YOU’LL FUCKING DEAL WITH IT
New tagline just dropped
I already directly quoted and linked your own words. I actually don't know which specific treat myself but you certainly went in guns blazing over it. I assumed it was MCU-related because of the thread's starting post, but maybe not.
https://hexbear.net/comment/4232675
Honestly, it does seem everyone in this stupid fucking "discourse" as a certain "point past legitimacy" that they hold. The thing enjoyers think any criticism of the thing they enjoy is illegitimate. The enjoyers of criticizing the things thing enjoyers enjoy think any counter-criticism to their criticism are illegitimate. The enjoyers of criticizing the enjoyers of criticizing things the thing enjoyers enjoy think any counter-counter-criticism is illegitimate...
Everyone seems to think the buck stops exactly right wherever they are and everyone beyond needs to shut up. But that's not really how discussions of media work is it? Everyone it constantly making argument and counter arguments that lead into other arguments.
Ok you normally have good takes but
The difference between insulting people and insulting media is like super clear and conflating the two is really stupid???
It isn’t “thought policing” to tell someone to not shit on someone for doing something completely innocuous that probably 90% of people here have done because their friends and family are still obsessed with it
So your answer is apparently to call me "really stupid" for doing that with three question marks, all while presuming I was insulting you, all because you apparently feel so defensive about your treats that criticisms of those treats (or maybe even the bad parts of their fandom) are taken like personal attacks.
Actually it kind of is here, especially how you frame it with such excessively ungenerous presumptive portrayal, and declared what you think I thought was "really stupid" with three question marks. You don't want me to share what I think here, and maybe even don't want me to think it at all. In other words, you apparently do want my thoughts policed.
I didn't make the edited comic, or that "when thought policing backfires" title for it. But considering how you just reacted to it, maybe it's on to something.
I have literally not watched a single marvel movie in what is likely a year and last time I did it was probably because of my family. I literally can’t remember, and I couldn’t give a single fuck about the brand and in fact hate literally all of it and wish it would die.
You are the one acting defensive about having a treat criticized. I have absolutely no stake in Marvel. I do not care about Marvel. What I do care about is my comrades not being asses for no reason, and that is what I’m concerned about. And, unlike consuming terrible slop, insulting people who don’t deserve it is directly harmful behavior.
The point isn’t that it isn’t a form of verbal suppression (yes, it is, yes, I do think insults against people over things that are not actually harmful should in fact be suppressed), but that it is a blatantly silly thing to consider bad because it is literally just normal social behavior.
Like, honestly, yeah, I’m thought policing, and I’m fine with it. If your treats being criticized and thought policed pisses you off so much maybe you shouldn’t consume them. Or are you going to tell me to just let you enjoy things?
This isn’t
town. I don’t give a single fuck if what I’m saying is “authoritarian” or whatever. Unironically, it would make me much happier if you and everyone else were to think of these things in terms of social systems instead of hating random people who mean no harm and probably just like shit because their meemaw said Thor was cool or something, and I am not ashamed of that.
Edit: and I am sorry about the
tone of my first comment, and somewhat this one. It isn’t even remotely acceptable. My only excuse is that it seems to be the only way to get through to people online, in my experience. I do respect you and part of why I even bring this up is because I respect you and the rest of the people I’m criticizing over this. I wouldn’t care nearly as much if you were all just random people, but I know for a fact that this can be a kind and caring community and is very often, and I despise what I see as an obstacle to that not being taken seriously, or worse, dismissed out of hand because of the superficial absurdity of it. I know it’s weird to give a fuck about what a bunch of people on the internet say about someone I don’t care about online, but I know that this case is innocent and innocuous enough that it would be trivial for that anger to turn around and target both myself or basically anyone else on here. I don’t want that to be this community and it’s sad to me that I don’t even know how to really communicate that feeling without it being drowned out and lost in the sea of internet irony poisoning and detachment. I will not respond further until I return from logging off, and again I am really sorry about how rude I have been. Thank you for reading this massive text block.
I have never watched a marvel movie
I wasn't even talking to you whatsoever until you started by calling me "really stupid."
https://hexbear.net/comment/4232675
If you were actually sorry you wouldn't have included "totally didn't insult you in excessive reactive defensiveness over a treat, just called you 'really stupid' in the first reply which totally doesn't count" in this very same reply.
I'm not even going to address the rest because you can't even own up to what you already did from the start here.
I made the edit part after everything else, I only left the rest because 1. I’m tired and yes I honestly should have deleted it and 2. It feels insincere to just have removed it all and then left only the edit
Please, I’m trying to be open here, I really don’t want this to just become an exchange of insults or anger. I’m only arguing about this because I care about your opinion and it legitimately scares me that people like you could just… stop caring about supporting or even being nice to me just because I said something cringe or weird
I know I was hostile. That wasn’t ok. But I was scared, I was angry, and I don’t really know what else to say, I can’t apologize or make it up to you in any way more than I already have. I didn’t delete it because I didn’t want to come across as basically gaslighting you by insulting you and then pretending it didn’t happen, but if you want I can delete all this.
I really don’t want to make you hate me for a prolonged period. I am willing to do anything to try and make it up to you, legitimately. I will delete all of my comments on this post if you want that. I don’t want to be an annoying debate-bro, I just want a community I can feel safe in
So much for the tired and going to bed announcement.
Then stop dodging labels and denying what you have already directly done in this thread.
Owning up to it is good and a good start and I sincerely respect that. Yes, that is what I tend to call treat defense and the way you blew up at me from the start seemed like a textbook example of it. It's not a fatal error and I think it's best to just accept that you did react the way you did and just back down from that from there.
Things are fine. I don't hate you. I actually respect you quite a bit now for the vulnerability you've just shown. That takes courage.
"Let people enjoy things"
I enjoy being a hater.
Being a hater is incredibly target rich as a Leftist. It’s like being an American in a school.
Constant internal argument, struggle, and contradiction, absolutely primes you to body the nearest lib.
Hexbear is like one of those timeflow altering training pods
Art consumption is a form of literacy and the vast majority of people are functionally illiterate. This makes capitalist propaganda easy and communist propaganda harder.
Edit: I still don’t blame people for consuming their slop, though. The anti-capeshit vs let-people-enjoy-things discourse is just the most inflammatory version of much more interesting conversation.
It is pretty scary just how many easy to consume slop works are about the nonpolitical concept of very special people that are born with a unique epic destiny that must (sometimes secretly) police over and rule over the unwashed unruly masses to maintain the status quo against bad people that want to change it, or for the Vincent Adultmen, how common it is to present the Adults In The Room Making The Hard Decisions and Getting Shit (atrocities, usually) Done.
It’s such a standard framing, yeah. Same with the “follow your dreams and never give up” bullshit that amounts to “commodify everything that makes you unique and quietly endure the harrowing conditions you’ll face along the way”. It’s the grindset. It’s capitalist realism. It’s a motor for the reserve army of labor. And importantly, it’s false consciousness. You can essentially encourage the portion of your population who’s most likely to rise up (young educated adults) to instead spend that time dreaming of becoming a small business owner or an artisan. And you can do so without provided them a material base for those ambitions. 1 in 1000 makes it and the working class loses twice.
I hear what you're saying but like Garfield > art by any of the ninja turtles; there's a lot of it and the characters talk too so you know what the cat is trying to say, just saying.
The curtains are blue and the cat likes lasagna
EXACTLY and it's like who doesn't?! It's just so relatable!
No it sucks because it’s artistically stagnant dogshit
Okay yea it sucks so much. I should've said don't hate on fans for that though
I’ll hate on whoever I want. You will never get me to believe it’s ok that society’s culture revolves around marvelbrained baby slop. It’s a sign of deep, deep problems with that society
You're a Thanos to our Avengers; HEXBEARS ASSEMBLE!
I highly respect that as a hater in recovery myself
Your hate was never pure enough if you have allowed yourself to regress back into accepting this dreck
What an individualistic attitude towards it.
Do you really think these individual, random fuckers have any power over what kind of content they are really exposed to, what kind of media is socially acceptable?
Yes. I also despise marvel and will say that whenever I want. But the random individuals that make it up aren’t deserving of actual hatred or mockery for enjoying it. Their friends enjoy it. Their friends of friends enjoy it. I’m not saying we should just “let people enjoy things”, I’m saying that our criticisms of the things need to be of the things themselves, and not “infantile mannerisms” or weird moralistic statements about people who fundamentally only really watch this stuff because all their friends talk about it and they want to be fun and cool to their friends.
It is certainly your right to despise others and have whatever feelings you have about them, but it is not your right to express hatred or ridicule them and it is not revolutionary or cool to do it all the time. We are not
liberals who “say whatever we want” because it feels good to dunk on the “unenlightened, unwashed masses”. We are socialists who are supposed to actually understand those masses and give them what they want. We are not preachers, we are teachers.
The criticism of Marvel has, frankly, reached a stagnant stage. It is not intense enough. This anger directed towards individual “Disney adults” is fundamentally a misdirection, an individualization of a social issue, a complete stop in the development of any truly revolutionary ideas that could come from our line of criticism.
Yes, dunking on libs who like marvel is extremely fun. But it’s just as brainless and non-constructive as the movies themselves. We don’t actually learn anything from it. We don’t help anything. We like to think we’re decreasing the power of the Marvel panopticon ever so slightly, but our online negging is likely meaningless in the face of the bare truth that these people barely have anything else to live for. Without Marvel slop, they would have nothing, live in a completely barren world with no color or purpose. And it is tempting to despise them for that, to say that we are different because some element of ourselves makes us special and superior.
But what element? Is it mental, physical?
I don’t think so. I think it’s all about social circumstance, and while I might be uniquely lib for this, the magic of bullying people is sort of taken away when I realize that I’m not actually doing some virtuous, revolutionary act. It just feels like kicking a malnutritioned puppy.
Nope. Nobody has any power over what conditions they arise in, doesn't change the end results of what they are. I wouldn't spare a nazi the wall because of the conditions of 20th century Germany molded them, and I would condemn a zionist even if they were born in Israel and brainwashed into it. You can critique individual symptoms and representations of the odious whole. Obviously those are much more serious crimes, but the same logic applies.
Yeah they are, sure. Why are you so defensive about this and not the other 1000 things we mock and hate people for on hexbear dot net?
You obviously haven’t seen me post at all, literally every time some sort of mockery about fundamentally harmless behavior comes up I’ve gotten pissed about it. Literally the only reason I don’t bring it up all the time is because people usually restrain themselves to only dunking on absolute ghouls for being absolute ghouls.
Also watching shitty superhero movies is not even remotely comparable to being a fucking active murderer of minorities, Jesus Christ
turning all of the art of film into artless fascist dreck is not harmless, and it's turned a generation of adults into blithering children. It's as contemptible as adults who still frame their worldview in harry potter. It's childish and obscene and reflective of deep problems in society, as I said.
I said the severity of the crimes is not the same.
I never said that Marvel was harmless. It’s disingenuous to even imply I did. The movies are literally military propaganda.
This random Reddit user watching it is harmless, though, or at least, our negging doesn’t reduce the harm. Our insults are nothing but an annoyance that’s trying to pierce an actual social institution of people who “enjoy” (said loosely due to the “quality” of the films) Disney’s media.
These people aren’t brainless, idiotic ghouls who are just going along mindlessly with what they know. They got here because there are a ridiculous number of social pressures that lead people into becoming obsessed with Marvel.
It’s probably one of the only things they talk to their friends about, and not just because they themselves bring it up, but because it’s one of the only forms of shared experience that people have these days, as horrifying as that is. It’s the same thing as celebrities and news stories about them. Just mindless slop that has no real bearing on reality. But people still stay up to date on it because all their friends and their entire social network seems to care about it.
Every single one of these things are all things that insults have no power over. We like to say bullying works, but this is where it’s power ends. Disney has such an intense stranglehold on the West’s culture that all an insult to a person who consumes their content does is just hurt them a little without even remotely changing their behavior.
Think think blaming this exclusively on Marvel movies seems more than a bit reductive.
Ooh reductive eh? My shitpost was reductive? You want me to write a Marxist thesis every time I critique some dumb lib shit in our society?
Very telling that as soon as treat critiques come up half of hexbear shitposters who have no problem throwing around insults and reductive statements in every other scenario get very serious and somber and demand a thesis. It’s like when family members of cops or troops demand very serious Marxist analysis before we mock da troops. No. I don’t care about your hang ups
Dorks can have exactly one (1) artistically bankrupt mega franchise that they enjoy, mostly because it made an impression on them as a child.
I'm stuck with Star Wars, and I'll have to live with hoping something like Andor season 1 to happen again for the rest of my life.
"Be normal" as a motto in such a diseased society is, uh, not good leftism whatever your podcast papa tells you
Media choices aren’t harmless and if insulting media insults your identity that’s a you problem
i reserve the right to also be a hater in matters of taste.
but ultimately i do not begrudge garbage fans their garbage.
Criticism is like a prison