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this post was submitted on 10 Nov 2023
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politics
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Are they going to prison for exposing animal cruelty, or is it just committing crimes in service of the goal of exposing animal cruelty? I bet I know which.
They are stealing sick animals of no commercial value in order to render medical aid. In cases where they have actually gone to trial for theft, they have won, because they show jurors footage of the awful condition these stolen animals were in.
Which was why the prosecutors dropped the theft charges, put a gag order on the footage, and instead threw a “felony conspiracy to commit trespassing” charge at the leader of the group, who didn’t even participate directly in stealing the animals.
Well, due to ag gag laws, you're committing a crime by exposing animal cruelty. So.
Oopsie woopsie, guess we don’t like knowing that, huh
I'm not subject to a gag law... I don't even know what the statement means. I'm also not a journalist, or the subject of a court case, so it's unlikely to have any impact to post comments on Lemmy.
Sorry, you misunderstood what I meant by “you’re.” I could have said “one is” to better avoid miscommunication. Anyway, look up some info on ag gag laws and then think about your original comment within the context of your new understanding of what is a crime in the USA.
So freeing livestock is a crime in your eyes?
My eyes don’t define crime. That’s not how it works. The law defines it. And the court looks at the law. I’m not a child so I understand this.
Do you consider Harriet Tubman a criminal too?
Ethically no, legally yes?
That's sort of just how laws work. Legal doesn't mean good.
Yeah, that's what makes her brave. We just don't say she was arrested for "speaking truth to power" or any other sensational nonsense. We say she was arrested for the crime she committed because it makes you think about why that's even a crime.
Honestly, I believe the vast majority of effective and meaningful protests will involve a crime. Usually, some form of vandalism/trespassing all the way up to theft. We hope not violence against people but sometimes counter protests force hands.
I just think it's important to own it (I mean, dont confess and get yourself arrested needlessly LOL) because that's part of the deal. Things rarely happen when everyone is nice and cordial.
So why do we need to differentiate between "arrested for exposing abuse" and "arrested for breaking unjust laws in the process of exposing abuse"?
Because that's how honesty works. My two phrases were similar, but the headline wasn't accurate to the truth.
Exactly. Some people think that if you have an altruistic goal, you’re exempt from the rules everyone else has to follow.
Yes, I actually agree that there are laws worth breaking for protest. I just dislike sensational headlines.
It's the fact that you are willing to face those charges that makes the act powerful. But phrasing it in a way that makes it look like you are in a totalitarian state, and being punished for speech instead of the crime actually committed does the movement a disservice, as you start erecting your own strawman for people to knock down.
They’re not punished for the speech, they’re punished for breaking the law.
Correct. That's what I said.