this post was submitted on 29 Oct 2023
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Work Reform
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A place to discuss positive changes that can make work more equitable, and to vent about current practices. We are NOT against work; we just want the fruits of our labor to be recognized better.
Our Philosophies:
- All workers must be paid a living wage for their labor.
- Income inequality is the main cause of lower living standards.
- Workers must join together and fight back for what is rightfully theirs.
- We must not be divided and conquered. Workers gain the most when they focus on unifying issues.
Our Goals
- Higher wages for underpaid workers.
- Better worker representation, including but not limited to unions.
- Better and fewer working hours.
- Stimulating a massive wave of worker organizing in the United States and beyond.
- Organizing and supporting political causes and campaigns that put workers first.
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i think, i found the issue in your exchange:
it's the way the two of you define "groups".
the person you replied to defines a "group" as members of a social grouping; they were talking about rich people as a "group".
you were talking about power being held by an unspecified, arbitrary "group" of no particular social membership; i.e.
to you, a democracy is a power structure that is "controlled" by a "group".
to the person you replied to, the U.S. government is a power structure controlled by a specific "group".
when they say "a minority group", they are talking about rich people being a small percentage of the population, and thus a minority, which is making laws benefiting mostly themselves.
when you talk about "a group holding power over others" you are talking about an abstract, arbitrary, and undefined collection of people.
to you, a coalition of far-right fascists and far-left anarchists forming a joint government would be a single "group".
to the person you replied to, that would be 2 distinct groups holding a portion of power.
you were talking past each other on different levels of abstraction.
which is why it's no wonder you accuse each other of being disingenuous... because neither of you engaged in the same conversation...
at least that's the impression i got, maybe i interpreted something wrong too... short text, like a forum comment, really isn't well suited to philosophical discussions: way too much room for interpretation...
The problem was not that we understood terms differently.
We may have done, and it may have produced obstacles to communication.
However, the problem with the conversation was that the other participant made hasty assumptions, and was predisposed to attack, rather than being reserved in judgment and willing to discuss. Ironically, such eagerness led to attacking me on the inferred basis of my discussing in bad faith.
Such kinds of smug dismissals contribute to toxicity in communities. They obstruct both explaining and learning.