this post was submitted on 19 Oct 2023
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Lemmy.World Announcements

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founded 1 year ago
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Hello World!

We've made some changes today, and we'd like to announce that our Code of Conduct is no longer in effect. We now have a new Terms of Service, in effect starting from today(October 19, 2023).

The "LAST REVISION DATE:" on the page also signifies when the page was last edited, and it is updated automatically. Details of specific edits may be viewed by following the "Page History" reference at the bottom of the page. All significant edits will also be announced to our users.

The new Terms of Service can be found at https://legal.lemmy.world/


In this post our community mods and users may express their questions, concerns, requests and issues regarding the Terms of Service, and content moderation in Lemmy.World. We hope to discuss and inform constructively and in good faith.

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[โ€“] AMillionNames@sh.itjust.works 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

In this regard, this is pretty damning: https://kbin.social/m/RedditMigration/t/554307/Just-wanted-a-warning-Lemmy-World-is-perhaps-worse-than-reddit

Also, adding having to agree to the Terms of Service when a new user creates an account is good, but does nothing when they create the user from another instance. Lemmy instances that want to implement this might want to consider forcing users coming from other instances to have to agree to general Terms of Service before they can fully participate.

[โ€“] antik@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

That thread filled with people who got banned from Lemmy World. You think everyone there is arguing in good faith?

And some of the reactions to the new ToS have been quite aggressive towards the admin team, even though there is nothing there that changed how people can use our site. Be a decent person and you are welcome, that is the document's purpose.

We had reactions telling us "fuck off corporate shills" and "suck my balls" and publicly stating they will be a problem and then it's Shocked Pikachu when they get banned and start threads everywhere.

As you pointed out, people who sign up on Lemmy World have to agree to these terms by typing "I agree" in the sign-up form. We're looking into other options for existing users.

[โ€“] AMillionNames@sh.itjust.works 26 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Part of what you are saying may be true, but what the OP is claiming definitely isn't. The Internet Wayback Machine links to the "offending" comment, which they couldn't have manipulated, and the modlog reason on lemmy.world isn't lying. Worse, it was a comment in this thread where "Users may express their questions, concerns, requests and issues regarding the Terms of Service, and content moderation in Lemmy.World. We hope to discuss and inform constructively and in good faith." that got him banned with the claim that he was "disagreeing with the Terms of Service" because of it, and it does not seem that any apology or acknowledgement has been sent.

Speaking of which, you can go through OP's history in their kbin.social account and find out how he was defending your admin team from the reactions you are complaining about until he had his comment history completely deleted and his account banned on lemmy.world.

The problem isn't just with existing users, the problem is with new and existing users from other Lemmy instances who aren't going to have the same Terms of Service as you. You are basically going to have to come up with a way to get them to agree with it before they can participate in it, and given that this server seems to be within the EU, that probably also means some additional GDPR concerns when obtaining if you are trying to cover yourselves legally.

[โ€“] PeleSpirit@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

That does look like they deleted the person by accident. When people are attacking you, it's hard to see everyone clearly.

[โ€“] Aux@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If it's hard to see clearly, then such a person should not be an admin.

[โ€“] PeleSpirit@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

This is all volunteer and by donation, be the change you want to see. Mistakes happen. Having been a mod, it's way harder than it looks. I can't imagine how hard an admin is.

[โ€“] AMillionNames@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Except that according to OP's comments elsewhere, they haven't apologized or communicated directly with them, they haven't answered their ticket, and the entries in the modlog of them doing those actions have been removed. Nothing about that looks like the actions of someone making an accident and owning up to it.

The reason that was archived hardly makes it seem like an accident:

Banned @InternetTubes

reason: disagreeing with the Terms of Service - don't worry your content is gone

https://web.archive.org/web/20231020022523/https://kbin.social/u/@InternetTubes@lemmy.world

https://web.archive.org/web/20231019235547/https://lemmy.world/modlog

OP has also pointed out that you can search for HEISENBERG in a more recent modlog and look back and see that a lot of entries have been removed, https://web.archive.org/web/20231021224842/https://lemmy.world/modlog . This is about the only thing that could seem like an accident, even if the timing does make it seem suspicious.

There's also another person joining in and making claims that seem to support that they act this way: https://lemmy.ml/comment/5060380

[โ€“] PeleSpirit@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That all does sound like there is a rogue admin, have you contacted Ruud or another one of the admins? This isn't a faceless organization, but a volunteer one. Someone could have came in to do harm, or this is a shitty instance (I'm leaning towards it being an attack). I haven't had anything weird happen, but I've been naive about this before. Ruud could be being naive too. I think we'd love to know how this all turns out, so keep us updated.

[โ€“] AMillionNames@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

According to OP, they believe it was the same admin who's been writing the ToS because of the last comment and the ban reason although there is no direct evidence of it. They did provide a screenshot of a ticket having been made in mastodon.world that hasn't been answered.

Just looked at Ruud's account, and he has been inactive for a few weeks now, he may not be available and this may have been done in his absence. I think Antik has been the only one to reply, but saying that a whole instance is untrustworthy and associating to people complaining about how this server has handled itself seems like deflection, specially when OP seems to have defended lemmy.world against those very same criticisms in the past.

I really just wanted to know, but having no clear answer is an answer to itself. I'll just let this alt become my new main so I don't have to risk the wipeout. It still leaves a lot of possible potential damage, but people are crowding around this instance, whatchagonnado.

[โ€“] PeleSpirit@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's hard for any of us from the outside looking in to make a judgement call. The OP could be sending threatening messages to that admin to cause drama, it could be an honest mistake, a malicious admin or the whole instance is Meta masquerading as a decent instance, we just don't know. There are a lot of serious malicious actors trying to take this instance down, that was obvious a month or so ago. As you say, whatchagonnado but see how it plays out.

[โ€“] AMillionNames@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

OP has provided all information he can and archived to verify its objectivity. It is the admins who are being silent to the multiple number of complaints. It is hardly due to OP that messages have most certainly been removed from the modlog, it is hardly due to OP that the reason for their ban was what it was and not what you are claiming OP to be, or that the admins are largely remaining silent from this discussion.

When indisputable evidence has been presented, it should be other side to defend themselves, not have speculation provided as if it has the same equal weight. You are basically saying that your speculation regarding the potential bad faith of the OP is the same as all the objective proof that they have provided. It is not.

[โ€“] PeleSpirit@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

OP could still be sending threatening messages, have you modded before? The trolls have been out full force here for about 2 weeks now, I'm going to wait and see.

Complete speculation, or using said speculation to attempt to argue objective evidence away, really isn't helpful. Taking that approach, anyone could claim that a stoner admin could have acted as one would expect an admin who is stoned to have acted, it's just slinging mud.

If reddit proved anything, it's that waiting won't force a response if the admin team just wants it to go away. I'm not waiting, and I suspect we will hear little more about this until the next time the base cause of it brings about other issues.

[โ€“] PM_ME_FAT_ENBIES@lib.lgbt 2 points 1 year ago

You ban people for disagreeing with you no matter if they're in good faith or bad. I'm going to assume everyone you banned is in good faith until proven otherwise due to your track record.