this post was submitted on 20 Oct 2023
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[–] PugJesus@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago (7 children)

White South Africans are literally European colonists. Like, I don't mean that in a disparaging way, but in a literal sense. And not in a "We came by and integrated with the local people" sense, but a "We ended up as a privileged European caste in this country".

I don't know how much 'us' you can use with regards to the oppression of Black Africans by European colonists, since we're apparently discussing collective and ancestral guilt.

Do you generally call paying back a debt 'helping the collector'?

No, but that's because debts are legal instruments. I don't have any choice to pay back a debt, short of getting government goons on my ass. What's more, debts (in the modern sense) are clearly defined and separate from ideas of guilt. This is more like a criminal wronging someone and seeking to later make amends when they see the consequences of their actions upon the victim, which I would regard as the criminal 'helping' the victim.

[–] flyingchaucer@lemmy.sdf.org 6 points 1 year ago (6 children)

I'm not a European, so you're wrong there bud.

But more importantly, my identity is with the people I share a culture with. I'm first a South African, then a bunch of stuff, and one thing down the line is white.

You're right that I'm the beneficiary of a racist system. The difference is that I have no issues with affirmative action or redress. You criticising me for being white and for decolonisation is like when people criticise Bernie Sanders for being rich and supporting higher taxes. It's a stupid, reductive non-starter of an argument.

Now that my race is out of the way. My country has been looted by European countries, and it continues to be looted by extractive imperialism. Why can't I ask them to pay us back? Where is the contradiction?

As for making amends = helping, most people would disagree. That's a dumb assertion.

[–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Do you accept responsibility for Elon Musk?

[–] flyingchaucer@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Lol! For many South Africans, he's the guy we'd go back and teach art if we had a time machine

[–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

And I'm sure there's plenty of Europeans who would like to go back in time and sink some colonist boats or convince them the ocean is more trouble than it's worth.

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