this post was submitted on 17 Oct 2023
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I eat meat and for a while now I've said vegans are simply right.
There's a logical inconsistency with valuing the lives of pets, or being an "animal lover" who still eats meat. People don't want to be confronted with their cognitive dissonance, so they make fun of people brave enough to make changes in their lives because it makes them feel better. I genuinely think everyone knows deep down that vegans are right, so they make up reasons as to why they're "unlikeable."
I'm sure in a century's time when we are able to produce meat without killing animals through biological technologies, people will look back at us as morally depraved.
I'm vegan now, previously vegetarian. But before this I was in exactly the same position as you describe. It's the first time that I'm actually hearing of someone who admits there can be an inconsistency between your own behaviour and your values.
Depending on what it is, sticking to your values is hard and requires changing your behaviour and habits. Your environment matters a lot. For me it was easy to switch to a vegetarian diet because my partner loves experimenting with cooking and collecting recipes. For many it won't be this simple.
I used to think it would be easy for people generally to admit that it's pretty unlikely that they're sticking to all of their values, but apparently it's not. I think it's impressive how you're managing not to let personal pride determine your opinion on this!
That's interesting! I might find myself in your position in the future but a combination of factors for me makes being vegan a bit difficult.
Did you phase meat out of your diet gradually or go straight cold turkey?
I appreciate the likely uncomfortable truth you present here. Much respect to you and I generally feel the same. Not everyone is willing to move on now, and that's just the nature of cultural norms. For me personally, I don't particularly care what other people do and just try to lead by example.
It is really uncomfortable but also complex. There's so many reasons people still eat meat but you can't really engage with the discussion without acknowledging how expensive/ time consuming following a fulfilling vegan diet that meets all bodily needs is. I think that's a big part of why people won't "move on." Someone else may correct me if I'm wrong because I don't know much on this but I feel like a good vegan diet is so heavily commodified that people can't afford it. The majority of people dom't have a choice as things are, and there aren't many policy changes being put in place to enable ordinary working to lower middle class people to seriously consider a vegan diets.
I don't agree with that, here's a study from Oxford University confirming vegan diets are on average 33% cheaper than omniverous diets.
It can be expensive going vegan if you eat brand name fake meat every day but everyday vegan staples (chickpeas, lentils, beans etc) cost very little.
Great study. To those who believe that raising own meat, dairy, eggs, hunts, fishes, or traps comes in as "nearly free food," either doesn't place a value on their time, and/or doesn't consider the large costs in investment and learning-curve / training involved. (And if it was that cheap and easy, then it would be reflected in low prices at the market and therefore still be cheaper. Evidently, it is not).
you're misreading my comment. I am not calling those methods nearly free (though, for some people, they are.) I'm talking about programs like SNAP or WIC in the USA or food banks or food distribution programs. if someone w literally hands you 5 pounds of pork, and you throw that out, you need to replace that food somehow, probably with money.
that study doesn't account for anyone who gets free or directly subsidized food, raises their own meat dairy or eggs, hunts, fishes, or traps. as a result, it excluded the actual conditions of basically every poor person in a developed country. for many people it is much cheaper not to throw away free or nearly free food and go buy vegan food.
I do agree it requires significant education. I think it's about what's served to us as a cultural norm and thus habit-ingraining. For instance, my parents will never switch because it's too much effort to teach old dogs new tricks. They grew up around dairy farms and massive lobbyists in the meat & cattle industry shaping the menu of the America diet.
And admittedly, it would've been harder to be vegetarian 20 years ago or more than now, thanks to access to vegetarian options, wider produce options, and restaurant menus accommodating this.
To put in perspective, India and Asia has large populations subsisting on largely vegetarian / vegan diets for dirt-cheap. If for example it weren't the dairy and poultry lobbyists who reigned supreme in America but rather soybean and legume lobbyists, we'd be making the opposite arguments of convenience as we are now. It's sort of the same argument oil lobbyists made in resisting the shift to electric vehicles and rail transit.
I can't fully speak for vegans as I'm not one. I suppose I'm close to an Ovo-vegetarian who avoids dairy when possible but not religiously.
I can say that if you really want to be vegetarian or vegan, it CAN be done as cheaply if not more cheaply than the average middle or lower-class diet. But again it takes more education in nutrition to know exactly what you're looking for. When I first transitioned to vegetarianism, it was a massive learning-curve that took me at least 2-3 years to start getting a sufficient grasp on the dietary needs and adjust accordingly. Most people simply don't know how.