this post was submitted on 17 Oct 2023
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Highlights: In a bizarre turn of events last month, UK Prime Minister Rishi Sunak announced that he would ban American XL bullies, a type of pit bull-shaped dog that had recently been implicated in a number of violent and sometimes deadly attacks.

XL bullies are perceived to be dangerous — but is that really rooted in reality?

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[–] charonn0@startrek.website 63 points 1 year ago (18 children)
[–] bitsplease@lemmy.ml 31 points 1 year ago (8 children)

Yeah frankly the statistics are pretty conclusive. You can argue about bad owners all you'd like, and theres probably at least some truth there (if you're an asshole who wants a violent dog, you're of course going to choose a breed with a reputation for violence), but it's clear to any unbiased observer that pit bulls have a high tendency towards violence.

No one is advocating that we round up all the pit bulls and euthenize them (no sane person anyways), but that we stop breeding new ones. Frankly there needs to be a lot more regulation on dog breeding, besides violent breeds, there's no reason we should be breeding more (as an example) pugs, who are doomed to spend their whole lives suffocating just because some people like their squashed faces

[–] Forester@yiffit.net 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I'm not trying to nitpick and start an argument with you but the guy you're replying to has conflated two very different things. Likelihood to bite and ability to damage with bite. You are most likely to be bitten by a Labrador retriever. You are most likely to be fucked up by a Pitbull. I will not deny that pit bulls have the ability to fuck you up. Just like I won't deny the ability of a German Shepherd to rip a fist-sized chunk out of your leg.

Furthermore he is pretending to quote with a sense of authority however reading his own linked article will disprove his claim. The number one identified breed with the ability to cause damage was "unidentified". The article claims the number two breed was "Pit Bull" which is not a singular breed and encompasses many subreads. The third was "mixed" fourth was German Shepherd.

I have owned many pits over the years. We currently own one that is 25 percent husky and 75 percent pitt that looks nothing like a pit he came out looking like a hound everybody loves him always asked to come up and pet. At the same time they are afraid and scared of our smaller mutt dog with a blocky head and call it a pit, but he's just a mix of retrekver shepherd and terrier.

[–] Zippy@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I do alot of work and give a fair amount of donations to a animal rescue facility that fits thru about 400 dogs per year. Pit bulls have without question been the most likely to be aggressive out of all the dogs that file thru. We get many other aggressive dogs but the pits are the only ones that stand out.

This may be due to their strength or due to the above average likelihood of them being raised in aggressive environments. There are also nice pits but regardless I am completely against breeding them and more so, there is no logical argument to be made breed them.

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[–] Nougat@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Yeah frankly the statistics are pretty conclusive.

From the article:

Pit bulls were responsible for the highest percentage of reported bites across all the studies (22.5%), followed by mixed breeds (21.2%), and German shepherds (17.8%).

"Mixed breeds" are just barely behind pit bulls. That's hardly conclusive.

[–] bitsplease@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 year ago (10 children)

"mixed breeds" just means any dog that isn't purebred, which is the vast majority of dogs, so it doesn't say much that they account for a lot of attacks

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[–] JustZ@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

"Reported" is the key term. In over half of all dog injuries, the breed is not reported.

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[–] Cosmonauticus@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (11 children)

A pitbull isn't even a breed of dog. Grouping them all together as a breed is like grouping together all dogs considered hounds. It's an umbrella term for the American pit bull terrier, American Staffordshire terrier, American bulldog, Boston terrier, Boxer, Bull terrier, Bullmastiff, English bulldog, French bulldog, and Staffordshire bull terrier.

So essentially statistics on pitbull bites are either completely flawed, or just flat out wrong.

Vox did a very nice piece on pitbull stigma that changed my mind about them.

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[–] theyoyomaster@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That is simply not true. More injuries are attributed to “pit bull type” breeds but that is far different from “more human attacks.” It’s also wildly tainted since it’s based on self reporting and any time it’s not an obvious German shepherd, husky or golden (etc) if someone can’t quite guess what it is most people are predisposed to assuming pit bull because of bigots like you that just hate the breed.

Small dogs like chihuahuas are far more likely to attack humans than pit bulls, although serious injury is less likely for smaller breeds. Even that is skewed based on human factors and handling since small dogs like chihuahuas are often carted around and over handled with complete disregard for their comfort or tolerance level because they’re “pocket sized” and too many assholes have no problem just picking them up whether they want it or not.

The only thing your link shows is that the majority of unknown large dogs that caused injuries were assumed to be pit bulls by one person or another.

[–] charonn0@startrek.website 10 points 1 year ago (11 children)

The only thing your link shows is that the majority of unknown large dogs that caused injuries were assumed to be pit bulls by one person or another.

FTA:

Essig also explained why “unknown” tops the list of breeds: “We often didn’t know what type of dog was involved in these incidents, [so] we looked at additional factors that may help predict bite tendency when breed is unknown.” Those additional factors included weight and head shape. The findings showed that dogs with short, wide heads who weighed between 66 and 100 pounds were the most likely to bite.

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[–] Forester@yiffit.net 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

I'm glad you took time to take a nuanced opinion on the article that you don't seem to have read. To be honest it sounds like you didn't read your own article. "unknown” tops the list. This is because dog breeds aren't identified by genetics a cop shows up says oh it looked like a pitbull it had a blocky head and it's automatically a pit until DNA tests prove otherwise.

[–] reddig33@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (44 children)

I read the article. It’s the same old excuses about “It’s the owner not the breed.” And “Breed is not a reliable predictor of aggressive behavior in dogs.”

Those statements just aren’t true. Dogs are specifically bred for certain physical and behavioral traits.

There was also a study done that proved breeding aggressive animal lines made their progeny even more aggressive. And docile more docile.

https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/whos-a-good-fox-soviet-experiment-reveals-genetic-roots-of-behavior

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