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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip
How dare Hamas act out of desperation from the largest open air prison on Earth?!
Writing strongly worded letters for 100 years while they were systematically deprived of basic resources, or mass voluntary Palestinian suicide because the world clearly doesn't value their lives, are their only acceptable options!
In all seriousness though. You live in squalor, your children starve, and you see the children of your oppressors who actively stop resources from getting to your children having a lavish party. Do you just tell your children to die quietly so as not to disturb their children's lavish party?
When you forcibly remove hope, vengeance becomes an intoxicating alternative.
For the record, I think both societies are are backwards and built on savagery and ignorance, because both are willing to die, to deny rights to, and to kill REAL PEOPLE THAT ACTUALLY EXIST for their equally moronic imaginary friends.
Fuck organized religion. No amount of conditionial soup is worth this never ending murderous cycle of bullshit. No rational person cares if you want to pray to Pikachu at 2am every morning standing on one foot, stop making your rituals and superstitious nonsense other people's problems.
Quite disappointing to see kbin users attempt to justify
a military blockade of people who use every weapon they can get to try to kill your civilians, and try to turn every resource they can get into weapons, is not "an open air prison." There are thousands of Gazans entering Israel every day due to Israeli work permits, medical treatments, refuge for gay people in Gaza (who are executed by Hamas). All in all, about 575,000 Gazans exited Gaza in 2022 by land borders, mostly through Israel since Egypt is generally fairly opposed to Gazans coming into Egypt. They won't let refugees into Sinai now.
The heads of Hamas are billionaires and live in Qatar. They take every bit of aid that comes in and use it to perpetuate terrorism. The blockade didn't start until about six years after rocket fire, until after Israel left Gaza. Gaza hasn't been occupied since 2005.
This whole "open air prison" thing is ridiculous. There's border enforcement because they use those borders to kill people. Israel controls their air space because they kill people by air. Israel doesn't like the terror tunnels because the terror tunnels are used to send terrorists in to kill people. If they want to be able to move freely, they should stop killing people in the places they want to move to.
I mean that's just untrue, even accounting for the recent violence Israel has killed many times more civilians than Palestinians.
"According to the United Nations, roughly 6,400 Palestinians and 300 Israelis had been killed in the ongoing conflict since 2008, not counting the recent fatalities"
My man, that's not the brag you think it is. Allowing people to leave gaza to have their labour exploited isn't alien to prison systems, nor is administering medical care.
And I don't really think many people are too concerned about protecting Hamas, they just don't want to be witness to a genocide because Israel conflates their actions with all of Palestine.
I'm sorry, but if your country has killed thousands of people along that border compared to hundreds.....then it's not the Palestinians who are utilizing the border as a weapon.
You haven't even established that the border has helped reduce the amount of people killed. If anything this week has showed us that militarized borders don't really do much but provoke violence.
With what Air Force?
Look, I don't think any reasonable person condones the slaying of civilians. That being said, I think the hamas attack was a foreseeable consequence of political blowback. The Israeli government has become increasingly right winged over the last decade, and have been advocating for human rights violations, the illegal colonization of homes, and have literally instituted an apartheid state.
It's foolish to think that there wouldn't be a violent reaction when Israel has rejected all other forms of discord. Apartheid states will always create violence, the only people whom can prevent it are the ones who can end the apartheid.
I'm sorry, did you read the sentence that you're saying is untrue? Because... you didn't address my claim at all.
leaving is pretty alien to prison systems. People in prisons are supposed to be locked inside. There are supposed to be guards in there with them 24/7. And prisons don't have borders with multiple countries.
I guess it's like a prison in that a gang runs the place, but unlike a prison in that, in prison, the gang doesn't take control of the food distribution and steal all the concrete that could be used for concrete, and use it instead to build tunnels that they use to murder outside civilians before coming back home to their prison. And the prison gangs usually aren't run by billionaires living in Qatar.
And I've never heard of prisoners beheading babies before. I've never heard of anyone beheading babies before. It's kind of, you know, totally unprecedented.
I've seen a lot of people celebrating these attacks. I've seen people in Manhattan waving swastikas around at a "pro-Palestinian" rally, before Israel's reprisals began. I've seen people in London vandalize Jewish neighborhoods, breaking windows and spraying graffiti. I've seen people in Brooklyn protest a memorial by saying that the violence against civilians was justified. At a memorial service. They couldn't let people mourn? Mia Khalifa's biggest problem with the attack on Israel was that the video was in portrait mode and not landscape, otherwise she was having a blast.
They don't give a shit about Palestinians. They just want to see Jews suffer.
With fucking hang gliders, if they can.
It's usually more of an issue of Iran dropping weapons in by air.
It's pretty sick to call beheadding babies as "foreseeable," isn't it? Did you actually see that coming, that they would behead babies?
I think you mean "discourse." I guess you've never heard of the Olmert deal?
Hamas controls the majority of the PA legislature. Abbas didn't accept the Olmert deal because he doesn't have enough political clout to do it.
Hamas, in its charter, explicitly refuses any prospect of negotiation or peace. They explicitly want to destroy every Jew on the face of the earth, not just Israelis.
Israel still comes to the table with Abbas, but it does not have a realistic partner for peace.
Netanyahu is also a dick, though. I really wish Olmert and Abbas figured it out...
That they were trying to turn anything they could into a weapon to kill civilians...... and all they could possibly do is kill 300 in over ten years while taking thousands of civilian casualties. Doesnt really add up to the picture you were trying to paint.
There are work release programs in most all major prison systems...... and your other rebuttals are purely pedantic. There are several types of penal systems, some just ship people to remote islands....they are still prisons.
It's almost like the Israeli government doesn't care what happens to the people in their prison...... very perplexing.
You must not read a lot of history...... there was once an ethnocentric theocracy by the name of imperial Japan that did some stuff in China a while ago..... also, do you have any evidence of this actually occurring?
And you think neonazi are reasonable people?
Ahh yes, everyone who disagrees with the Israeli state hates Jewish people....... no way people could just want an end to an apartheid state.
And controlling there airspace prevents this how?
Ahh so the Iranians are Palestinians now...... how would controlling the air space east of Israel prevent Iran, a country west of Israel from dropping bombs? Controlling their airspace is just another way to control the flow of vital goods.
Yeah, beheading a baby and airstriking a baby both end with two dead children. Also.... what evidence do you have that babies have been decapitated? We've seen this or things similar to this be falsely broadcasted to justify war in our lifetime.
Discord isnt just Skype for gaming, it means argument or disagreement. Israel has rejected all other form of argument, and thus there will be violence.
Lol, a deal implies two willing parties. The realignment plan was a unilateral border change where Israel attemped to legalize their illegal settlements by claiming they'd disengage from the West Bank.
The problem is that nothing is stopping someone making unilateral policy from changing that policy as they see fit. Within the span of year it went from disengaging from 90% of the West Bank to 70% of the West Bank. Why would the Palestinians agree to signing something like that when Israel has already been so keen on breaking international law?
Yes, and terrifyingly he's been your PM six times....... over a decade and a half of creating the perfect environment for extremism.
I don't hate Jewish people, I'm not a white supremacy nut, both would be odd for an Asian person. As a person who's home country has a history of border conflicts, crimes against humanity, and fascist governments, I don't think your people are going to look back with any pride for what is going to unfold in the next few months.
... because of the blockade, and the iron dome, and the IDF in general. I'm sorry Israel is good at defending itself.
... and because Hamas was specifically holding off for this one planned, concerted attack, with missiles saved up, which explains why they didn't join the Islamic Jihad attack or anything.
... and they killed more than 300, you're only counting the Israelis they killed, not the Palestinians they killed. 25% of their rockets land in Gaza, they're not exactly careful aiming them.
It's almost like the Palestinian government doesn't care. Or like they do care, and they want nothing more for them than martyrdom.
Israel continues to give all this aid even though Hamas is controlling its distribution. What would you prefer they do? re-occupy Gaza and deliver aid individually?
I was not aware that they beheaded babies. I'm aware of the conflict, and the rape of Nanking, and the general attrocity and animosity there, but no, I have not read that they beheaded babies, forgive me.
Multiple eyewitness reports reported by multiple reporters + the president of the united states confirming it, but I'm sure you won't be satisfied until you see Hamas post photos to facebook, huh?
here's another source.
I'm sick of this bullshit. Hamas explicitly calls for the extermination of all Jews in its charter, not just the ones in Israel.
I did not say that everyone who disagrees is an antisemite. I said that the terrorists who openly and proudly hate Jews are antisemites, and the heartless bastards who celebrate that terrorism, who watch on with popcorn while innocent Jewish civilians die are antisemites.
Israel is the only state in the middle east with any semblance of equality—with complete equality, until the current Israeli government—based on race or religion, but let's stop and pretend it was an Apartheid state, and let's say that all people want is to end it.
So they see soldiers parading teenage girls in the streets. They see their blood-stained sweatpants, they know she just got raped. They hear that (then) hundreds of Israeli civilians are dead. They see a music festival get massacred.
Do you think they really think this is going to end Israel? Do you really think they're that stupid?
Hamas does not want to end Israel. Hamas wants to kill Jews, provoke war, and maintain its stranglehold over Gaza. Hamas cannot exist with peace. They were afraid the Saudis might try to broker peace, or that the Israelis would vote Netanyahu out, or something might happen to make peace more plausible, and they had to stop that.
All this attack was meant to do is kill Jews and provoke a war. Nobody is stupid enough to think they're about to end Israel.
(this comment is apparently too long...)
Are you being intentionally obtuse? Iran drops weapons in Gaza. Iran delivers weapons to Gaza. They're not dropping bombs, they're delivering weapons, that's why I said that they were delivering weapons, and not that they were dropping bombs.
I supplied plenty of evidence above.
Hamas targets babies and cuts their heads off point blank.
Hamas fires rockets from a building, Israel targets the building, Israel warns the people in it, and Hamas refuses to evacuate babies, because they know dead babies help draw sympathy and perpetuate the conflict.
These are both tragedies. They are not the same.
lol, so you said:
and you meant:
... okay, sure. Uh... yeah, no, I would not expect a violent reaction to a country that refuses to sew the seeds of discord.
Now, if Israel had refused discourse, that might have been a problem, but that's not how it is. (It's also not a justification for raping teens or burning babies bodies or any of the other shit they've done, but you don't seem to care when Hamas does unjustifiable things, so let's put that aside).
Fine, the Olmert proposal.
Olmert proposed a proposed deal to Abbas in 2008. He offered, in a short negotiation in principle, over 93% of the west bank, with land swaps in return, giving East Jerusalem to the Palestinian people, acknowledging it as their capitol.... Israel only wanted a small sliver of the land it already controlled and offered an equal amount of land in return, including East Jerusalem! And peace. That's all they wanted. A few land swaps and peace.
And Abbas didn't go for it because he knew Hamas would not abide it. There is no such thing as peace when Hamas is present.
They could have said that the land swaps only occur after Israel has withdrawn other settlements under such-and-so conditions, they could have cut a deal around that negotiation in principle, but Abbas just couldn't negotiate.
No, I was not talking about a unilateral move. Although if that had happened, the West Bank would be free now.
I'm American.
You know how he won in 2009? Olmert backed out of Gaza, terrorism spiked, and Netanyahu said "I told you so."
Less occupation, more violence? Yeah, that's a recipe to fuel war hawks.
No, of course not, they didn't want this to happen. You think they would have looked back with pride if they sat around and did nothing?
I can't do this again, I haven't been getting any work done, getting caught up in internet debates with people who don't want to sympathize with Jews in the first place. I'm going to mute you now. Or block you, because kbin only has one button, and it's really a mute feature, but... I can't keep doing this.