this post was submitted on 03 Oct 2023
95 points (95.2% liked)

Ask Lemmy

26924 readers
1791 users here now

A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions

Please don't post about US Politics. If you need to do this, try !politicaldiscussion@lemmy.world


Rules: (interactive)


1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. Please familiarize yourself with them


2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?


3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.


4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either !asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world or !asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com. NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].


5) This is not a support community.
It is not a place for 'how do I?', type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.


Reminder: The terms of service apply here too.

Partnered Communities:

Tech Support

No Stupid Questions

You Should Know

Reddit

Jokes

Ask Ouija


Logo design credit goes to: tubbadu


founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Critical_Insight@feddit.uk 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I disagree with the statement 'punching up is good' but I wasn't sure I disagreed with what the person making that claim actually means by it, so before writing an essay on why that is wrong, I'd rather first ask them to clarify their stance to make sure I'm arguing against their actual view, instead of the view I'm only imagining them holding.

'Don't punch down' is a rule I mostly agree with it. There are exceptions, but you're probably not a bad person even if you resist "punching" in those cases. 'Punching up is good' however not only says that it's okay to do so, but that it's actually a virtuous thing. That I disagree with, and since most people in this thread seems to think "the golden rule" (Do unto others as you would have them do unto you) is a good rule to live by, then I'd also like to draw attention to the apparent conflict between these two.

Personally I'm of the mind that punching, be that literal or figurative speech, is almost never good. Punching, to me atleast, sounds like something that's directed towards a person instead of ideas. There is nothing too holy to criticize or anyone too privileged to criticize it. That doesn't mean all critique is valid, but that's what discussion and debate is for. As long as you're coming in good faith, then all critique is fair game.

[–] lvxferre@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I disagree because sometimes you need to go against people too, not just the ideas. For example, if you protest against a politician trying to approve a law that fucks everyone for the benefit of his personal business, you are "punching" him metaphorically. If you bring the authorities against someone powerful for breaking the law, you're also "punching" the person. So goes on.

On the other hand, someone gave a great example, about someone poor stealing baby food. Calling the cops against the person would be to punch down.

[–] Critical_Insight@feddit.uk 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

if you protest against a politician trying to approve a law that fucks everyone for the benefit of his personal business

Even in this case, going after them as a person, instead of protesting against the law itself seems counter-productive. If I make an argument and someone then calls me stupid, it's not going to change my mind, nor anyone else's who agrees with me. It's just makes it sound like they simply don't have a better argument. It's maybe a bit different when the personality flaw in itself is the issue, as is the case with Trump and lying for example, but if one then starts making fun on his small hands that just makes them look petty.

However, I still want to aknowledge, that humans are social animals and such public ridicule has been a powerful weapon throught the ages, so even though I personally don't want to act in this way, and in my ideal world no one else would either, it is still possible, if not even likely, that such ridicule is very effective. Then again, shooting them is effective aswell, but I don't want to live in a world where we solve disagreements that way.