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this post was submitted on 01 Oct 2023
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Mildly Infuriating
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Im 37 and studied international relations, and Im still not clear which of the following is a nation state, and which isn't:
All I know is that 'Little Britain' is a TV documentary.
Britain/Great Britain are the name(s) of the island itself. The largest of the cluster of islands there off the coast of France and The Netherlands.
The "countries" of England, Scotland and Wales are located on the island of Great Britain (and several of the smaller nearby islands). These are distinct political regions with their own governments.
The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is the "nation" made up of the three countries of Britain plus Northern Ireland, one of two "countries" located on the island of Ireland. The United Kingdom is the highest governmental body before you hit the international community; the UK has a desk at the United Nations, for example. It's a "nation of countries" that is bound and fucking determined it's not a federation despite being built a lot like one.
England doesn't have its own government and parliament, it's run directly by Westminster which also runs the UK. Part of the issue with the UK is that they never bothered to introduce a properly federal system, Westminster rules supreme gracing regions with some power to self-administer to lower their discontent but they can also take it away at any time.
Which then also led Britons to have inane takes such as the UK not being sovereign while being in the EU. They simply don't get (con)federations.
The issue with England in particular is that they don't seem to be discontent (enough) to demand Westminster devolve some powers, seeing that the country is governed by London for the benefit of London the rest being periphery. See all those English towns suddenly realising that all the money they got to develop were EU structural funds, not Westminster, and then still sticking with Brexit because I suppose realising your mistake is more embarrassing than tripling down. In their mind.
And Northern Ireland doesn't have its own government (usually) because they can't agree to form one because reasons.
As many times as I've had to explain what a state is to a Brit, that tracks.
thanks i'm calling UK Federal Kingdom from now on
England is the biggest country in Britain
Britain is the island with England, Scotland and Wales on it
Great Britain then also includes the entirety of Ireland, "standard" and Northern.
The UK is governmental grouping of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, as they share the same parliament. To a certain extent each country has their own government too (except for England as it just uses the UK's government in London). An example of how they are their own countries and not just States of the one country would be like how the EU is, except if Belgium also used the main EU parliament also as their own.
Edit: most of this is wrong, I think specifically the Ireland stuff, my bad.
That's not quite right.
is the "big island" and the political grouping of England, Wales and Scotland (plus islands). "little Britain" has been used historically to name the island that Ireland/Norther Ireland is on, but that would be pretty controversial now...
The United Kingdom is the three countries of Great Britain, combined with Northern Ireland. And it's the "official" country / nation, has a seat of the UN security council etc. But NI, Wales and Scotland are all countries, and in many peoples they're nations too (depending on how you define such things).
Thank you I am even more confused than before
Great Britain is a geographical term not a political one. It's like saying continental United States, it doesn't mean the same thing as the United States of America. The term covers the island of the United Kingdom plus a few but not all of the islands. The Isle of Wight is included the Shetland Islands are not.
The United Kingdom is made up of three countries England, Scotland, and Wales, plus all of the islands that are not covered by the term Great Britain, the United Kingdom is a country as well. It's a country of countries. I don't believe there is anywhere else in the world with that setup so it is confusing.
Northern Ireland is not part of the United Kingdom for all sorts of complicated reasons but it more or less boils down to the fact that it was a colony rather than the core of the empire. And it's never been updated because what's the point.
So the full and recognised international term is the United Kingdom of Great Britain (England, Scotland, Wales, and all the small islands) and Northern Ireland. Except not the Isle of Man because that's its own independent country that's nothing to do with us but in some ways kind of acts like it's part of the UK, they use the pound but they use it in the same way that Canada uses the dollar, but politically it is its own thing. Although I don't believe there are any border checks so you can kind of pretend that it is part of the UK as you can just go there more or less whenever, it's just a weird part of the UK where everyone's strange and unhelpful.
Oh shit yeah, just realised, there's a reason they say UK and NI. Fucking huge face palm moment. My bad to anyone I may have stepped on toes of.
I was mostly wrong, don't take any notice of what I said
Go away and fuck off with that terminology including all of Ireland, lived here my whole life and I've never heard that mentioned once. I've heard other ignorant geographical statements like the "British isles" but never once have I heard the shite you decided to put out.
Sorry, I'm open for correction, didn't mean any harm. I genuinely thought what I said was right at the time of writing (only just woke up). I now realise it's wrong but now I don't know what is definitely right.
England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are all countries, they form the UK. Britain is England, Scotland and Wales.
Ireland has nothing to do with it what having fought for a millennia for self rule.
Nope. Great Britain is the large island, Ireland the second largest, and while many geography books call the whole archipelago the British Isles you'll hear plenty of Irish object on account of "British" including the English.
Thanks for the correction
I don't think the (very old) CGP Grey video on the topic has been posted yet.
https://youtu.be/rNu8XDBSn10?si=inPVvC7BkSELXSvi
The only elements in this video I know to be out of date are the UK's membership of the EU (*shakes fist), and Barbados is now a republic.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://youtu.be/rNu8XDBSn10?si=inPVvC7BkSELXSvi
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
The United Kingdom is the nation state, Great Britain is the combined land mass of Britain and the island of Ireland, England is one of the 4 home nations.
This is why I am always annoyed that England, Wales,and Scotland get to represent separately in international competitions. They're essentially states, and you don't see Texas turning up to the football world cup or something.
The United States has the world series which includes only the states, and no countries, and doesn't actually involve anyone else at all.
Has anyone else tried to send a baseball team to the MLB from outside the States?
Toronto. And Montreal until a few years ago.