this post was submitted on 23 Sep 2023
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True. The headline is sensationalist. It’s not unusual to have these types of effects from medical device testing, animals scratching at scars etc. but that doesn’t excuse the outright lying from Musk. These people signing up for the trial are insane.
Maybe it's just because I have a deep-seated terror of brain surgery, but this all sounded absolutely terrifying to me.
I also hate, hate, HATE that Musk said that the monkeys were all ill. Not only is this 100% bullshit -- this would completely invalidate the data -- but it also indicates that like most things, he has a 13 year old's understanding of life. He thinks that something that is sick has no right to safety, because, like, they're already on borrowed time or something, right? I'm certain that to him, the stakes of these tests are lower because it's not like, healthy full people like him who will eventually use these to get cybernetic super powers. These are humans with disabilities. They're expendable test subjects. They're lucky to get even a chance at improvement. Plus, serving as guinea pigs gives them a chance to be useful to the great Elon Musk's ambitious. Absent that they're just a waste of food to him.
Well yeah, eugenics is back and us disabled folks are terrified.
If my life wasn’t worth living I’d’ve killed myself. I don’t want some loser ass tech bro who can’t even be bothered to raise his children to try to declare himself the authority on whether or not I live/reproduce.
Now they're going to start doing it to ~~bigger expendable test subjects~~ people, yay.
Fuck I hate elon.
Oh my God! He's forcing disabled people to undego his experiments?!
Oh wait, what's that? They're all volunteers? They're all willing to go through with it despite all the risks? Oh, and what else is that? The decision to move forward with human trials comes from the experts running the trials and not just Elon himself? Well golly, that sure throws a wrench in my worldview. Guess I'll just ignore all that in favor of keeping my hate boner directed at a single billionaire.
volunteers on false promises will become victims. let Elon get it first if he really believes in it, just like the ocean gate CEO believed in his submarine.
Nobody said they were forcing disabled people to undergo his experiments, where did you get that from?
The same place they forced him to buy NFT's obviously.
For context, I work in biotech. I've worked with animal subjects and human volunteers, and participated in the internal review process. I'm grateful for the guiderails that protect human subjects, and hope they hold up. Because as your comment points out, humans with disabilities are in a very vulnerable position. If experimentalists lack concern and patient consent is their only protection, human subjects will have no guarantees say all that the procedures are safe. These expert reviewers and regulators you mention are the only reason this article is about monkeys and not first round human subjects.
I'm sorry but, It really feels awful reading this comment, downplaying the horrific pain a torture these monkeys went through just to have some failed technology that did nothing for them.. we did not even get good results from the test because a majority of the monkeys died from their complications... that's is awful... most animals when ethical implications are considered for testing, don't end up with majority of the subjects dying from terrible, preventable outcomes....
I agree here. Hope my comment didn’t downplay the severity of this. It is horrible and the investigation needs to continue. But I stand by saying the headline makes it sound like a Saw movie.
That being said, I hope the whole thing gets shut down at this point. It sounds like vapourware. Like full self driving I’m sure it all just works. Just wait 2 more months and they’ll release it. Yeah. Right.
Ok but this isnt exactly some outlier. These kind of results happen pretty regularly with this kind of testing. People are only upset in this instance because it's magnified by their hatred of Elon.
It's like if everyone got mad at a factory farm for how it treated cattle, but only because it was owned by someone infamous. It just feels disingenuous. Like, you either knew about the standards for these conditions beforehand and didn't care, or you've had your head in the sand and only just recently learned about it from media focused on a person you hate.
It just reeks of "I just heard about this thing, have done zero research on it, and have formed my opinion entirely from headlines; but I think it's bad 🥺🥺😢. Plus the person who owns them is a big meanie poopoo head and I hate them."
Notice how there's not some big push to ban animal testing from this? It's just use to point at Elon and go "Bad man, bad!". Face it, people care WAY more about shitting on him than they do about the monkeys.
It's not sensationalist. Paralysis and brain swelling as a result of neuralink implants are terrible things. The headline is accurate. People have just developed a more theatrical view of the horrors of animal experimentation based on movie depictions, and cases like these feel understated in comparison, despite both being horrible in their own way. The reality isn't usually as loud and in your face about it as movies, but that doesn't make it any less terrible.
He's testing it on paralyzed people, so they're probably depressed and desperate. It's kind of like he's trying to help, but it could be seen as sleazy because he knows these people will try anything to fix their situation.
"He's testing it on paralyzed people"
He's exploiting paralyzed people under the guise of trying to help them.
Hes experimenting on the disabled.
I mean, at some point a treatment for the disabled has to be tested on the disabled.
There's a lot wrong with Musk, but testing a medical device on the target patients is hardly unethical.
It is at the current stage. That is the point.
When some stupid high percentage of animal test subjects die from the test, you would think they'd work on the product more before moving forward. Instead they're like "welp caused paralysis and death in the majority of our animal test patients, this is totally ready for human tests!"
I'm not saying their methods aren't flawed, just that testing a medical device on the targeted users is not at all unethical and is a requirement for approval.
Sure, that's what I was saying in the following sentence.
So to phrase this appropriately: you could say the apartheid blood emerald trust fund baby is experimenting with dangerous technology on disabled people because he views them as less than human. I don’t think it can be viewed any other way than sleazy. Besides it’s not like people with disabilities are so desperate they don’t care about their quality of life.