this post was submitted on 17 Sep 2023
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the_dunk_tank
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It's the dunk tank.
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Right, that's kinda my point. It was the other person's claim that they invaded Ukraine to stop the US putting installing missile sites. Neither silos or airbases really makes any sense. North west Poland is closer to Moscow by the way of the crow than all but a small part of Ukraine.
and you don't think they would use that "small part" of ukraine? you don't think having access to ukrainian airspace, ideally someday without russian military euipment within its borders, would be helpful at all? like maybe we would want to launch a multi-pronged attack from several locations at once or something?
no one said it was the only reason, there's also the consistently broken ceasefires and ethnic cleansing of russian speakers in the donbass and luhansk republics. and the american interference in ukraine's government. see any UN report from before 2020.
Not really, it's basically a salient flanked by Belarus. Not exactly somewhere you'd want to put sensitive equipment. Especially compared to Poland, where they have buffer states.
I mean, we were talking about Russia's justification of invading Ukraine. Now that justification includes Russia already being there?
Why? What would the west materially gain by fully mobilizing and invading a nuclear power? NATO doesn't care defeating Russia in a totalitarian war, they mostly care about Russian competition in central Asia and the Middle East.
Why invade when you can bankrupt the government via proxy war, just like they did with the USSR. If NATO really wanted to set up an invasion, they wouldn't be slow walking more aggressive military aid.
There's been no evidence for this.....
Again, you are aping the justifications from a militaristic capitalist state, while completely ignoring historical materialism.....
i wasn't talking about invading and mobilizing, but a multi prong nuclear first strike to take out nuclear launch and control facilities. an invasion may or may not happen afterwards to secure the region.
as for evidence of ethnic cleansing, i already mentioned the UN reports but i'll post.
https://www.osce.org/files/f/documents/e/7/233896.pdf
https://press.un.org/en/2022/ga12483.doc.htm
https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14823.doc.htm
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/ukraine-has-nazi-problem-vladimir-putin-s-denazification-claim-war-ncna1290946
https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/Documents/Countries/UA/Ukraine_14th_HRMMU_Report.pdf
https://www.state.gov/reports/2018-country-reports-on-human-rights-practices/ukraine/
https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/05/02/the-historian-whitewashing-ukraines-past-volodymyr-viatrovych/
https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/white-supremacists-other-extremists-respond-russian-invasion-ukraine
https://thehill.com/opinion/international/359609-the-reality-of-neo-nazis-in-the-ukraine-is-far-from-kremlin-propaganda/
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/ukraine-s-got-a-real-problem-with-far-right-violence-and-no-rt-didn-t-write-this-headline/
https://cisac.fsi.stanford.edu/mappingmilitants/profiles/azov-battalion
Is not saying anything about ethnic cleansing. Everyone knows there's been crimes against humanity committed by both pro Ukrainian and pro Russian forces.
Is a un voting resolution about the spread of nazi ideology.... nothing to do with ethnic cleansing.
Is literally a un security council meeting about Russians killing civilians.....
Lol literally an opinion piece that starts with ... "Of the many distortions manufactured by Russian President Vladimir Putin to justify Russia’s assault on Ukraine, perhaps the most bizarre is his claim that the action was taken to “denazify” the country and its leadership."
Is a document laying the blame for the vast majority of human rights violations on Russian led forces.....
"Russia-led forces in the Donbas region engaged in: enforced disappearances, torture, and unlawful detention; committed gender-based violence; interfered with freedom of expression, including of the press, peaceful assembly, and association; restricted movement across the line of contact in eastern Ukraine; and unduly restricted humanitarian aid."
I would do the rest, but I can tell by the titles that they don't hold any evidence that says there's been any ethnic cleansing. You managed to link more evidence supporting ukraine cause than ones justifying any of Russias claims.
Hilarious.