this post was submitted on 09 Sep 2023
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Can't you shill for peace and be pro Ukraine?
Considering the Ukrainian position is basically "any loss of territory is unacceptable", there is little room for both peace negotiation AND support for Ukraine simultaneously. Tough position.
I don't see it as tough. Wishing for peace doesn't mean I want Ukraine to surrender.
Fair enough. I guess I've spent too much time seeing disingenuous calls for "peace" on the internet, mostly by pro-russia shills, with the intent of painting the western support of Ukraine as evil warmongering or something.
We do wish for peace ultimately, but there's a whole lot of violence to happen if it is going to be on Ukrainian terms, because russia does not look like it wants to back down.
You word it like Ukraine is somehow responsible for the violence because she won’t back down.
This entire clusterfuck is Putin’s fault. Not wanting to give up territory is completely understandable.
I think you're putting words in my mouth, never did I imply or think that Ukraine is responsible for what is happening, or that Ukraine is not right in wanting all their territory back. However, it is factual that if Ukraine wants to secure its territory, which is entirely justified, it will not be by means that are describable as "peace" or "peaceful", because russia is not backing down like complete idiots(a common theme).
Is what I am saying false?
I agree with the other guy, you're wording it in a way that is attributing all the agency to Ukraine and none to Russia. It probably would lead to much more needless death in the long run, because it sets the stage for additional aggression. Which of course would be staged from a much more consolidated position that would be much harder to roll back than if Ukraine just rolls it back now.
Thank you for finding a way to word it better than I did, that’s exactly what I meant.