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A reminder that the creator of Lemmy, Dessaline, is an admin on Lemmygrad and outspoken Tankie
(sh.itjust.works)
this post was submitted on 12 Aug 2023
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MeanwhileOnGrad
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4 users here now
"Oh, this is calamity! Calamity! Oh no, he's on the floor!"
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Ukraine and the other nations affected consider it a genocide.
I don't think the developers are evil. However, I do think denying recognition of genocides and atrocities by authoritarian states is evil.
Taken from Wikipedia:
So, while there may be debate on whether the Holdomor technically meets the definition of a genocide, it still constitutes mass murder.
That is not necessarily true because it is not easy to establish intent. As far as I know there is not a clear idea on even the numbers, only estimates that have been quite far apart. I do not think there is adequate grounds to conclude that it was done with intent, nor to rule it out, hence why it is under debate.
Yeah, but man made famines still aren't okay, even if you don't intent to destroy a people.
Would you consider the frequent man-made famines in ireland in the 19th century, including the very famous great famine, an example of 'genocide' or mass murder?
Yes? Especially for the genocide part.
Yes, that is a genocide.
Of course not and I think the most valuable we can learn from history is how to prevent something of the kind from happening again.
That's why we should steer away from authoritarianism, which is what these communities want.
What about Canadian genocide of the indigenous? Surely you count that?
Canada recognizes its multiple genocides against the First Nations. We have days dedicated to indigenous Canadians and activly trying to put indigenous voices first.
The same can't be said about China, Russia or the US.
Would someone who denied, say, the Holocaust not be a bad person because of their 'alleged stances'?
You want to go home, and rethink your life.
At some point you gotta live with em, you can try to tell a tankie or a Trumper the truth and they'll nod along politly but still get drunk and spout nonsense. as long as they ain't starting a militia or beating they wife might as well let the old dog bark
Ah, of course, I keep forgetting Ukrainians aren't people to tankies.
Uhm, I do not think you have a good understanding of what I am saying if you think I do not care deeply for the Ukrainian people both then and now. I understand that it is upsetting to debate something as horrible as what happened, but that is also why it is important to try to get the narrative right.
What do you think the narrative is?
I think it is debatable to some degree and I am not an authority on the subject. I would rather listen to someone more knowledgeable than myself talk about it.
what is that degree?
It is not nazi apologia.