this post was submitted on 01 Sep 2023
200 points (89.7% liked)

sh.itjust.works Main Community

7693 readers
4 users here now

Home of the sh.itjust.works instance.

Matrix

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

If so, was it polled somewhere?

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] silent_water@hexbear.net 30 points 1 year ago (4 children)

we want an immediate end to the war. in what way does wanting an end to the death make us comparable with the alt-right?

[–] MonkCanatella@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

How is being pro russia and wanting war to end in any way compatible though? They invaded Ukraine. They literally started a war. That's a pretty disgusting deflection tbh

[–] Egon@hexbear.net 16 points 1 year ago

How is wanting an end to a war being pro-russia?

[–] 420LetPobedy@hexbear.net 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

NATO/US started the war when they couped the democratically elected Ukrainian government in 2014, and when the US installed regime started bombing civilians in the Donbass

[–] MonkCanatella@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Oh so Russia is just saving Ukrainians from US imperialism by bombing them and committing war crimes. Thank god for our wonderful leader putin o7

[–] 420LetPobedy@hexbear.net 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Where did I say any of that? I was simply correcting the poster about who the original instigators of the conflict were, and pointing out the fact that the banderite regime has been killing innocent Ukrainians for years, history did not begin in February 2022

Acknowledging the US's role in creating the conflict and the crimes of the regime they installed is not the same as supporting Russia's actions

[–] Venus@hexbear.net 7 points 1 year ago

Russia started a war. Ukraine has two choices. Surrender and end the bloodshed, or fight tooth and nail and pour more innocent people into the meat grinder and then surrender. There is not a third option. Obviously they should choose the former.

[–] Zirconium@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Calling for an immediate end to the war is dishonest and supports Russia

[–] somename@hexbear.net 22 points 1 year ago (1 children)

We’re just not keeping our head in the sand here. Ukraine is not taking back Crimea, or even the Donbas. The counteroffensive failed horribly. Cheering for more bloodshed isn’t going to make a better outcome in the end.

[–] Zirconium@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 year ago (4 children)

"cheering for more bloodshed." Are you telling on yourself? You act like a counteroffensive is supposed to be fast and easy. It's not, war is bloody and deadly and Russia is not going to call for peace until they achieve their objective of overthrowing the Ukrainian government or achieving a peace deal where they can keep Ukraine's economic sectors

[–] Egon@hexbear.net 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Russia is not going to call for peace.

So that was a fucking lie
[1] [2] [3] [4] [5]

[–] Zirconium@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You act like peace deals are the same thing as calls for peace. They can still have peace deals to appear they want peace when they started the war in the first place back in 2014

[–] Egon@hexbear.net 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You act as if a peace deal isn't literally someone calling for peace.
Lmao what with the "infiltrators" that cannot be proven? The two oblasts have a large population that is ethnically russian. When a government that had spoken of cleansing russian influence comes into power, it is pretty understandable that that would foment separatism. At best we can prove Russia provided financial aid to separatists, and then later stepped in and negotiate Minsk I and II, which were both broken by Ukraine

[–] Zirconium@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Did these ethnically Russian people want to be apart of Russia?

[–] Egon@hexbear.net 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They at least fought enough for autonomy that Ukraine saw fit to bomb them. Wether they wanted to be Russian is debatable

[–] Zirconium@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Some Russians who maybe maybe not that lived in the area fought against Ukraine which means they wanted autonomy therefore it's ok for Russia to annex and invade Ukraine

[–] MemesAreTheory@hexbear.net 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Quick question: did you know about any of this before today? Did you know about the Maidan Coup? Did you know about the nearly 15,000 casualties, including over 3000 civilian casualties, in Luhansk/Donbas between 2014 and 2022? Were you aware of the extensive reporting by western sources on far right elements in Ukraine committing crimes against humanity?

If any of that was news to you, do you think it's ever appropriate to pause and reassess your position? Or are you just going to double, triple, and quadruple down on your fairy-tale understanding of the world with smug quips that don't address anything of substance? smuglord

[–] PandaBearGreen@hexbear.net 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Yall calling for the continuation of the war are telling on yourselves. Otherwise you'd fucking be fighting rather than advocating behind a computer for others to die. Too scared to go to Spain and fight the fascists?

[–] Zirconium@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Oh man the the US union should've just given up the civil war instead of continuing the fighting. Think of all the good Americans that will die. Let's just let the confederates secede instead of having a bloody conflict

[–] AntiOutsideAktion@hexbear.net 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

You think the country that has a national holiday to celebrate their Nazi era leader is the Union in this analogy?

[–] Zirconium@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

And there the conversation goes. Ukraine is actually Nazi and it's ok to kidnap and bomb the Ukrainian citizens because the country is openly nazi

[–] AntiOutsideAktion@hexbear.net 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Just using the trappings of sarcasm in your reply doesn't negate the fact that I reported is in fact true. They openly celebrate their nazi history.

The conversation goes that way because there lies the truth.

[–] Zirconium@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago

The truth doesn't happen just because you say it does. Can you link anything to prove what you said or do you just pretend your worldview is the truth

[–] ReadFanon@hexbear.net 10 points 1 year ago

*brings up an odious historical comparison in a hamfisted attempt at an analogy*

*someone else brings up history relevant to the country in question*

"How dare you!?"

[–] PandaBearGreen@hexbear.net 12 points 1 year ago

Nice false equivalent. Keep trying.

[–] Egon@hexbear.net 8 points 1 year ago

If you think it's this important, why aren't you volunteering?

[–] somename@hexbear.net 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

The only progress the counteroffensive has made is in destroying Western materiel and getting scores of Ukrainians killed. They haven’t even reached the second defensive line yet. The total amount of territory retaken is like 100 meters of farmland. I’m calling it a failure because it is a failure.

[–] ReadFanon@hexbear.net 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Hey, it's made a lot of money for the military-industrial complex too!

You can't call it a wash like that when, back home, the almighty line is going up.

[–] AssortedBiscuits@hexbear.net 15 points 1 year ago

You act like a counteroffensive is supposed to be fast and easy.

It's September. Their window to make any gains in their counteroffensive has passed. Now they have to fight against the weather on top of the Russians.

[–] Egon@hexbear.net 21 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They can either surrender now, or surrender when all the able bodied people have been killed for no good reason. Ukraine can no longer win this war.

[–] Zirconium@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

"Ukraine should surrender so that they can spare their civilian and combatant lives to Russia which totally won't abuse their land and people as they've done in the past"

[–] Egon@hexbear.net 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Ukraine should surrender now while people still have families to come home to, instead of propagating senseless death.
You're also just making russian demands up? At no point during this war has Russia sought to annex the entirety of Ukraine, which it seems to be whate you are implying they will do.
Please try to remain in reality.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] AntiOutsideAktion@hexbear.net 13 points 1 year ago (9 children)

So wait. Your criteria for who should win is based on the aftermath... So you think Ukraine should be allowed to complete it's ethnic cleansing?

load more comments (9 replies)
[–] winterayars@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Russia could make that happen, you know. They could pull their forces out. Right now, that would end the conflict.

[–] somename@hexbear.net 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Do you think we’re in charge of the Russian military? The war is going to end eventually one way or another. We might as well push for the path that preserves Ukrainian lives.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] AntiOutsideAktion@hexbear.net 18 points 1 year ago (8 children)

And Ukraine could have prevented all of this by simply abiding by the several peace deals they signed before the war started. What's your point?

load more comments (8 replies)
[–] RedDawn@hexbear.net 4 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Damn too bad they’re not going to do that, so what should we do about that? We support a negotiated settlement to the conflict in order to achieve peace, you support marching every single Ukrainian person into a meat grinder to die. Which of is more right wing?

load more comments (7 replies)
[–] yuri@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

imagine dying on the “war is bad” hill. i can agree on that point, and i don’t even need to politically align myself with real shitters and make a fool of myself in pseudo-public to do it!

[–] PandaBearGreen@hexbear.net 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

imagine not thinking war is bad. imagine believing American propaganda given its track record.

[–] ReadFanon@hexbear.net 14 points 1 year ago

Bro, this war is totally different to every other war, bro!

Trust me, bro! I know we got duped into supporting:

The Korean War

The Vietnam War

The war in Iraq

The other war in Iraq

The war in Afghanistan

The war in the Philippines

The war in Guatemala

The war on Cuba

The war in Laos

The war in Cambodia

The war in Somalia

The war in Yemen

The war in Libya

The war in Grenada

The war in Yugoslavia

...but this time it's an existential threat!! Trust me, bro!

[–] AntiOutsideAktion@hexbear.net 19 points 1 year ago

imagine dying on the “war is bad” hill

art