Seriously though, the USA is virtually always bad.
this post was submitted on 02 Sep 2023
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My new thing is just telling people I don't like countries that regularly bomb hospitals. It's 50/50 on people then defending the US even harder.
I told my (sorta) friend that Obama oversaw a bombing of a Doctors Without Borders hospital and his only response was a smug 'well it wasn't on purpose'.
Do you think it was on purpose? (I haven't looked into the one yet)
Yeah it was totally an accident firing on a hospital in a country you invaded.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunduz_hospital_airstrike
I mean hospitals can be set up anywhere and enemy combatants can hide in hospital buildings. You'll need to go a little deeper.
Thats some kremlin apologia right there
also you are a soulless bastard
I said you'll need to go deeper. Where in the command chain did the error happen? Or was it commanded from the top? Using munitions on hospitals usually isn't as efficient as command centers, so it might actually be a mistake.
Wait, are you actually anti Russian aggression? Yay! Could you help me out explaining in this thread that it actually isn't okay for Russia to invade?
Again, fucking ghoul. Lives are a toy to you to be thrown around to smear your enemies is that it? Arabic lives are worthless, honorary aryans are exceptions?
I don't want the war to happen, and that means both sides need to come together for a peace agreement. Invading another country, although with sense considering the geopolitical implications, was still a terrible thing. This is the position of Hexbear. You guys just stick on the parts where we say ukraine needs to pay reparations as well.
The bombing of donbass was insanely inhumane. There was no reason to do that! Russia does not have the subversive ability to prop up such complex movements. They cannot claim that they are just russian soldiers. the separatists have been asking for referendum since the fall of the Soviets. There should have been a renegotiation of the borders of the post soviet republics at the very least, they were made with the other republics.
The mess didn't start with putin, it started with the fall of the soviet union. An entity with which, all the republics would be without war, and would be working together for the advancement of peace and mutual prosperity.
Arabic lives matter. The US has been too intervention happy over there to the locals deterrent. Should have let isis win years ago.
But sad to hear your following Russian taking points about their justification. I had hoped since you had insulted me by calling me a Kremlin apologist you would be critical of them.
I'm sure there are some legit separatists in the dombas. But I'm also sure Russia is helping them as much as they can with little green men or weapons or propaganda. Besides, when they invaded, they were trying to conquer the whole of Ukraine, not just the dombas.
that may be literally the understatement of the century.
And I am not apologizing for their actions, just acknowledging that their aggression is not the main factor in this conflict. NATO is trying to box in a bear, and they got clawed in the face for it. Its also hard to see NATO as less of an enemy than russia, NATO was created on the basis of being an anti-communist military organization, they were made to kill us. I'm plenty critical of the neoliberal shithole the Russian Federation is, do you really think I like the literal corpse of the socialist motherland ripping itself apart?! These armies used to be one army, these lands one nation! They used to conquer the stars and now those rockets are aimed at the home of their sister countries. Its gone forever now, the nazis won in the end, the USSR died. The armies kill each other over the same land where their grandfathers fought side by side against the fascist menace. They fought together to liberate the land that their grandsons bomb over petty nationalism. Their memory is disgraced by every action in this war.
ukraine and russia are nothing without the Soviet Union.
The movements in donbass have been huge since the fall of the Union, you ignore reality to dismiss this. Russia knows its weakness, it invaded hoping the shock would prompt an immediate peace treaty, but have found themselves embroiled in the most modern war yet. It knows it cannot hope to occupy Ukraine, maybe to demilitarize it or at least have the donbass ceded back to them. Ukraine could have easily made peace by giving internal autonomy to donbass and crimea, but chose to try to ethnically cleanse it for nationbuilding. This gave Russia an opportunity to do some nation building of their own.
This war was caused by nationalism and capitalism. Not any noble desires.
Although I do find myself pleased when I see NATO equipment and troops burn in the conflict, a final revenge of Soviet Steel.
I have nothing to add but the most beautiful national anthem in the world: https://youtu.be/-o4eL0AUCKc?si=KNnVw6_IpsokiVPl
holy shit shut the fuck up already
Sure
You can block me if you want.
Eat shit
Hey look a war crimes apologist
That hospital wasn't just "set up" anywhere and enemy combatants weren't hiding in there and even if they were, you dont bomb hospitals, that's a warcrime
Seriously wtf is wrong with you?
I don't know the event your taking about, that's why I'm asking for more information.
You don't anything about the subject yet you still felt comfortable opening your punk-ass mouth about it
Kick rocks shitlib
Scratch a liberal.
You're not asking for more information, you barge in and opine as if you are presenting a valid concern. Have some humility
War crime bootlicker
you are a horrible person
Beepbeepbeepbeep
Ok so Russia is perfectly ok to blow up Ukrainian hospitals because Ukrainian armed forces are fortifying them and using them
Does it matter if it was on purpose to the people killed?
That's actually a good question. It's worse if it's malicious, but it's still terrible if it's accidental. The situation never should have been able to arise, preferably because the war never started.
I dont think it makes a differnce to the people who died in the hospital what you think is morally better
It was a result of the U.S. purposely undoing progressive reform in Afghanistan[*] and backing extremists to draw the USSR in and provoke a slaughter (then lying about it and saying they only funded extremists afterwards, only to admit this later); the U.S. then returned to assert control of the middle east due to oil pipeline plans/natural gas reserves. Oh and also the U.S. used the economic system that they had set up during occupation to starve Afghanis after they left. This wasn't some silly accident, it was part of a plan that no matter what meant the destruction of Afghanistan and the murder of hundreds of thousands. It doesn't matter if it was directly "on purpose."
[*] US State Department Memorandum six months before the Soviet invasion: “The United States’ larger interest...would be served by the demise of the Taraki regime, despite whatever setbacks this might mean for future social and economic reform in Afghanistan.... The overthrow of the DRA [Democratic Republic of Afghanistan] would show the rest of the world, particularly the Third World, that the Soviet’s view of the socialist course of history as being inevitable is not accurate” (reproduced in Cockburn and St. Clair’s Whiteout, pp. 262-63).
Thanks for the context. I agree that if the war is unjust, the individual events should have been avoided and are culpable to the one who is perpetrating the injustice.
I'll need to look into it more carefully, but that looks pretty convincing that the US was unjust to get involved.
The US was the one facilitating the violence, so it being "accidental" doesn't matter. If I shoot a gun randomly into a crowd, it doesn't matter if I didn't actually mean to hit anyone.
Oh whoops oh fuck I blew up a hospital in another country I have no business being in. Total accident!
yeah that's a good rul- wait that's literally all of them with a working military
Is this some sort of misguided american unexceptionalism where you think every other country is also doing wars in a billion places?
I’ve seen this rhetorical tactic taken up by neoliberals and left libs when arguing on behalf of imperialism.
“This is American exceptionalism to say the CIA and the US military are all powerful and the sole cause for 50+ coups and invasions. You are denying the agency of foreign nations to be fascist on their own by saying America installed all the fascists”
It’s like they are trying to use anti-Americanism to argue pro-Americanism. It’s really a great tactic for muddying the waters and confusing everything by using a left rhetorical tactic to defend the fascist American empire
The difference is that the US portrays itself as the bastion of freedom, democracy, and justice. With that logic, it makes sense if Russia or Syria or whoever else bombs innocent people because they’re barbarians who don’t value democracy.
But when the bastion of democracy, freedom, and justice drone strikes an American and random bystanders; drone strikes dozens of children and community leaders; drone strikes a bunch of doctors; spies on citizens and allies; illegally occupies an island to torture Muslims for decades before releasing them; kill citizens who are caring for their communities using leftist ideology; funds cartels and death squads to massacre labor activists and leftists in exchange for letting them traffic drugs; drop more bombs than in WWII on small countries, then rape and massacre their villagers; assassinate other democratically elected leaders; and no one is ever punished significantly for it, then maybe it’s time to stop blindly worshipping it.
All countries portray themselves well. European countries less than other Western ones, but Russia and China also cultivate a specific image of protectors of a lifestyle.
Which hospitals have China bombed?
What does that have to do with image cultivation?
They've been less military active in force projection, so probably not many yet. But I'm sure they'll get their chance as they become a super power with global power projection.
Actually, they've at least flooded their own hospitals, I wonder if they've accidentally bombed any with failing rocket stages?
It’s not logical for you to defend the US as global superpower by asserting, without evidence, that China might also do the same bad things if they could. They haven’t done those things and you’d need to provide compelling evidence that they have plans to do so. If not, you’re inventing a completely false equivalence out of whole cloth.
Okay. The U.S. is the largest power with the largest global power projection. China might also become a large power with global power projection. This is bad because they might bomb hospitals. This means the U.S. is bad because they do bomb hospitals. This means that China might as well be just as bad as America. This means that Ukraine might as well be just as bad as Russia because they also bomb hospitals.
So where is this going exactly? We're still left with "America does bad shit at a larger scale way more often" even when you imagine China doing the same thing in an alternate reality. Is this a useful line of reason? I can justify literally anything doing this.
Yeah, I suppose at this point it's harder to find countries that haven't. Though the US and NATO-aligned nations do have a certain knack when it comes to atrocities.
No, it's really not. Only if you're willfully ignoring what the US does.