It rules that libs constantly appeal to public opinion of people in Taiwan as an argument for why China should let it be independent but as soon as people from a Western aligned country want to exercise that same self-determination its "surrendering" to let them have a referendum.

Totally an intellectually coherent ideology and not just "our team (good), your team (bad)".

[–] ThereRisesARedStar@hexbear.net 51 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Neither of these things he describes are surrendering:

It could have given the Donbass some independence referenda and just let them go. It could have actually tried to adhere to the numerous Minsk Agreements to deescalate and prevent war.

In fact both of them would have prevented Russia from annexing donbass. They would be independent territories that would act as a buffer state between the two countries.

[–] Tankiedesantski@hexbear.net 40 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I was coming at it from the sense of both outcomes being the same (Ukraine losing Donbas) but in one scenario Ukraine "wins" because it doesn't get bombed and lose hundreds of thousands of people, but you raise a great point. There was a chance that letting Donbas go in 2014 would have resulted in a fairly neutral buffer with Russia.

There was a point where the DPR and LPR were just seeking autonomy within Ukraine to speak Russian and decide local issues but the hardliners in Kiev decided to sic Nazis on them instead.

[–] ThereRisesARedStar@hexbear.net 32 points 1 year ago

Hell in 2014 just granting more regional autonomy could have been viable (although the Russians would probably also push for travel rights that would allow easier logistics to Crimea)

[–] hoi_polloi@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

Hundred of thousands is sp much higher than any source I can find. On both sides of the conflict.

[–] Egon@hexbear.net 44 points 1 year ago

Go volunteer then