this post was submitted on 23 Aug 2023
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I got banned from one of the communities for simply saying I thought both socialism and capitalism won't work without more nuance and blending.
I always figured the snowflakes were really the far right... But no, it's both extremes, apparently.
If you can't examine real world examples of your philosophy critically, you've no business in the debate. Tankies aren't willing to hear about the flaws apparent in the system any more than your average thin blue bootlicker will.
I say this as someone who makes guillotine "jokes." Definitely jokes.
The extremes of each ideology are surprisingly similar my friend
I honestly had no idea before I came to Lemmy.
I actually really enjoy a lot of the facets of socialism and communism... Most people would easily mistake my independent political position as "left", especially since I strongly oppose the current GOP.
But here in Lemmygrad, I am apparently quite the villain for suggesting some extremist, far-left policies are toxic.
What policies?
Socialism is just democracy extended into the workplace. Saying pure socialism won't work is arguing against democracy.
I will always argue against pure democracies. People are not invested enough to provide a coherent opinion on 100% of the solutions our societies require for survive and thrive.
A vote over the use of chemicals for water treatment could easily end in their permanent ban. Hell, with the right malicious intent, someone could easily get dihydrogen monoxide banned from crop fields.
A pure democracy is how Idiocracy becomes a reality. Now, a mix, such as a republic electing the careful use of democratic socialism... Sure!
That isn't how it works. It's like if you're a part of a cooperatively run business, then you get equal say in workplace practices. There isn't a 'boss' dictating the rules to you.
Socialism is authoritarian. There's no democracy in socialism.
The definition of socialism is workers owning the means of production. That means democracy in the workplace. Worker's councils. Equal representation. Majoritarian politics.
Workers can own anything they wish under liberal capitalism. But your definition of socialism is actually wrong.
You mean that socialism is an authoritarian regime.
You should read the other comments below mine where another guy said the same thing.
Do you have any actual points or do you just mald online without adding any substance?
The political spectrum is a circle. Extremists might latch on to different BS but personality types of extremists on all ends are essentially the same. Loud hateful aggressive assholes lacking the intelligence to understand nuance.
It appears the leftists would like you to stop saying unkind things about them. I guess it's good we're not in one of their specific communities, eh?
Way to prove the meme right, extremists.
Yea, that's more of a self-report on your end if you can't comprehend nuance and think absolute rejection of classist hierarchy and absolute adherence to classist hierarchy are the same positions.
Perfect example above of not being able to read or understand nuance.
If you tried actually reading, you would have noticed how I in fact said the exact opposite. I never claimed they were the same, I specifically mentioned they may latch on to different things/positions. What I said instead was that they had the same personality type.
I read what you said. The personality types that people with these views hold are completely different. You're just wrong, that's all.
No actually I am most definitely correct. You are either just too biased to accept it or can't separate viewpoints from personality types and behaviours.
Nah, you're just a centrist who's too privileged to actually care about politics, and thinks making blanket statements from a high horse makes you look good.
News flash: it makes you look even more privileged and ignorant.
There we go, perfect example of extremists making discriminatory statements and unable to engage in discussion. I care about politics plenty, I just don't subscribe to one dimensional propaganda not supported by data.
Protip: attacking everyone who doesn't share your extremist and hateful views doesn't really make you look any better or change their mind. But I do get it gives you an outlet to be channel all your hate and blame others when you are just too dumb to understand nuance.
There you go, a high horse and pretending people far on both sides must have one dimensional propaganda. That's an outright fallacy.
Also, I'm not hateful. I'm just calling out another self-important centrist.
They took the time to specifically explain to you multiple times that they are in no way saying both sides are the same. You simply aren't listening.
I have a family member that does this. They refuse to speak ill of Donald Trump. They are extremely right leaning, and they are always making assumptions about others.
They are saying the personalities on both sides are the same, which is blatantly false for anyone who has touched grass in their life.
Just because you can't differentiate between what a personality type is and what beliefs and positions are doesn't mean that statement isn't true. You just seem to conflate political positions with behaviour itself.
I absolutely can, that's a horribly bad-faith interpretation of my point. Personalities among Communists and fascists are completely different, and if you have touched grass you would know that. Unless you're so privileged you've never had to care, of course.
That is absolutely not a bad faith interpretation but rather a clear reading of what you have said so far. If you cannot see the similarities in communist and fascist methodologies and execution, both historically and looking at the current climate, you are not assessing it objectively. Both communists and fascists have utilized repression, non democratic governance, torture, and killed millions of civilians who have the audacity to challenge their extremist views. Similarly with this discussion thread being a perfect example, both communists and fascists react negatively to any and all criticism and works hard to brigade and shutdown any discussion that might be contrary to their views.
Yea, that's not at all what has happened historically. Democratic, Capitalist countries have killed millions of civilians with the audacity to challenge their extremist views too, does that mean they are as bad as fascism? Fuck no. Equating Communism to fascism is fascist apologia, because historically Communists have not been nearly as bad as fascists.
I didn't even say right and left are the same, I specifically mentioned extremists who are a minority on both sides.
Again you should try learning to read. I never said people on both sides. Most people on either the right or the left aren't extremist commies or fascists. The extremists minorities on the other hand, one and the same. Intolerant of any other views or criticism. Your comments are a perfect example demonstrating.
Most people on the left are Communists. You using Communist as an analog with Fascism is blatant proof that you have in fact not touched grass nor actually engaged with leftists. Most people on the right are liberals.
I am not sure what kind of strange bubble you live in but that is objectively not true. Most people on the left are most definitely not communists. You either do not understand what the word communist means, or you live in a very strange bubble or country where everyone on the left is described as a communist.
Most people on the left are NOT pushign for common ownership of the means of production and distribution and are most definitely not in support of a centrally planned economy.
This is also the danger of extremist views, they think anyone who does not subscribe to their extremist viewpoint is against them and the enemy when in reality, 90% of the people on the left would not agree with communist ideology which has failed in reality time and again.
It doesn't matter where I live, Communism is the standard for the left in a global scale. Marxism is the foundation of the left, and Communism is the ideology of Marxists. Unless you're horribly confused and mean to refer to the Overton Window, left and right don't change based on location.
All in all I think you're confusing left and right with the Overton Window.
It's more that blending doesn't actually fix the issues with Capitalism. That's a take by someone who doesn't actually know why Socialists are Socialists and Communists and just heard about Social Democrscy.
I think people confuse "liberal society" with "liberal capitalism" and think if you have 100% socialism then you don't even own a toothbrush or something