this post was submitted on 09 Aug 2023
742 points (98.9% liked)
Fake History Porn
4398 readers
1 users here now
Welcome to /c/fakehistoryporn@lemmy.world , where fake history is made. Find a historically significant photo, come up with a fake history title, post it, laugh.
The name is a reference to the fact that the pictures should be worth marveling at. This is NOT a place for hardcore pornography. Tasteful nudity is fine as long as it fits within the context of the post (please mark it as NSFW).
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
...Yezhov was executed due to internal politics, his deputy's influence on Stalin, purging his own men, and just Stalin being paranoid. On the other hand, Stalin was afraid of a fifth column attack from within, as that happened over in Spain during the communist regime there. He was the one who ordered the operations, we have reports where he comments on how good things are going on the murdering Poles front, he was not unaware or mislead about this, he instigated it. Claiming Yezhov was executed and removed from history over ethical concerns is a pretty laughable one.
Also, what Motte and Baily? No when I think genocide I also think about systemic cultural erasure not just the murder and sterilisation part. Because my own country's done that. Most of Europe has, in one way or another. It's impossible to talk about any country's history without bumping into the concept in one way or another. That definition has been around for a pretty damn long time. And it so happens that the USSR did rather a lot of it. The Holodomor is admittedly a complicated issue to unravel (not helped by your apparent dismissal of it? Like, you do know Glasnost happened right? The USSR did give you permission to acknowledge that there at least was a famine in Ukraine), but if you want I can give you some lovely examples from my next door neighbours over in the Baltics. Not to mention what the USSR tried to do to Finland.
Not because of anything China's done. Literally the only context that mentiong them would make sense in is with their own great famine (which slight errata on my part, the 49-51 great famine is the worst man made famine in human history, not the Holodomor) so where the fuck did you pull Uyghurs from? Kinda think that's a bit of a Freudian slip there mate.
Also I fucking know what collectivisation is mate, a textbook definition won't change the fact that even with the most neutral idealistic stance the USSR royally fucked over their attempt with Ukraine. That's not what's the debate's about. That's about the size and if it was sheer incompetence or something more politically motivated.
Anyways oh my god you're an unironic Stalin apologist aren't you?
Maybe that's what YOU think, but that's not what MOST people think, which is what I said. The Oxford dictionary defines genocide: "The deliberate and systematic killing or persecution of people from a particular group identified as having a shared ethnicity, nationality, etc…" Says nothing about culture, and is pretty unambiguous that genocide requires "deliberate and systematic killing" which is not what you saw in Ukraine. That's how most people would define a genocide.
It's another example where your motte and bailey tactic is used. First, you make the bold claim. Accuse of genocide, mass killings, sterilization, etc. Then when everyone debunks you on it, you fall back to your motte, your safe claim. "Oh no, I didn't mean genocide like they were systematically killing people, I meant it like a CULTURAL genocide. Nobody said anyone was getting mass murdered." What a joke. And like I said already, I bring Uyghurs up because its an example where it could be debunked in real time, because it's in the present. Because the so-called "holodomor" is in the past it is more murky, but the same tactics are used.
Oh, you are trying to psychoanalyze me now. Hmmm. 🤣🤣🤣
Did you not even read what I wrote? Where do I deny there was a famine? I mention it all the time. Did you accidentally reply to the wrong person or something?