this post was submitted on 29 Jan 2025
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So... a room full of fascists against two individuals.
To me, this implies they will either be drugged, to be impaired, or chained. Otherwise, the numbers win.
I'm not a butcher. Criminals are to be dealt as such. Death is too short of sentence to be a punishment.
It's a crowbar, not a flamethrower. Pick your targets, avoid the head and soft tissue/core areas. Have fun.
You missed the sentence where I declare myself as not being a butcher.
Criminal law doesn't work on Nazis. They control the courts. Very few non violent options left I'm afraid.
Try this: fascists.
The German National Party is no more.
There is a difference between resorting to force to push down and cull the scum trying to topple the world and resorting to violence like they are, to butcher those they see as worthless, unfit, different.
Force, not violence.
I only wish in them what they wish on me. Anyone who has an issue with that is enabling fascism.
So, given that the average fascist considers anyone who does not subscribe their narrow view of the world as worthless and disposeable and are known to be very expedite on devising cruel and brutal ways to dispose of those they dislike, it would be fair, on your understanding, that the fascists underwent the exact same treatment?
You know why no one uses the phrase "Nazi apologist"? Because there's a word for it already. Nazi.
Fascist.
The proper word is fascist.
Stop saying that. Nazism is a subset of fascism with extra hate. Fascism has a strictly nationalist component, Nazism has a further racist component beyond its own borders. The "master race" argument is specific to Nazism.
No. Fascism is fascism. Same shit, different bucket. Fuck'em.
A lone anon does not simply prescribe linguistic standards — unless they're certifiable.
You don't agree with how I speak, fine. I do not care. Portuguese, Spanish, German, Italian totalitarians were the exact same thing then and are the exact same now: fascists.
And now I get to add another flag: american fascists.
I was going for levity, but you do you. It's going great so far.
Fair point. I was too terse on my reply. But mistakes have already been made.
Peace offering biscuit?
I'm sorry, I'm too busy dealing with my rights being trampled and taken away by these monsters along with other life stressors to care about your moral grandstanding.
Yes. Fuck them. Fuck anyone who supports them for "economic anxiety" or whatever BS rationalization they use to blind themselves, and fuck anyone who is still giving fascists the benifit of the doubt.
There is no middle ground, no high road, when these people literally want to kill me and my friends. I am exhausted by the last week along and have long been sick of people treating fascists with kid gloves.
The idea that people think I'm as bad as they are for standing up for myself while they inflict violence on me. Every step of calling fascists fascists and it's called "hyperbole" or "hysterical". Because acknowledgement of what they say they will do, have been doing, and are doing means their lives might be disrupted, that they would need to do something.
They do. We all do. But most people aren't. So, I'm focused on protecting me and mine. If you wanted a world where all we do is finger wag at fascist then something should have been done to stop what is happening right now...
But now, I have no sympathy anymore and grow tired of liberals, and honestly not a small number of the left, saying we should be above that. That ship sailed a long time ago.
If you are privileged enough to still feel like you are above that, then fucking do something so those of us who are the current targets don't have to defend ourselves alone.
I wanted to write a long reply, addressing each and every point of yours, but we're past due that point.
So allow me to throw the little rationality I try to use when addressing this kind of subject and instead just talk from my basic instincts.
I don't like fascists. I don't condone them. I denounce their actions, ideas and ideals. And I'm not afraid of them.
What is being done currently in the US is a crime against humanity, by a criminal regime.
You are in your right to want vengeance, to want payback for all the evil you and your friends have been targeted with. You want blood. And, sincerely speaking, you're owed it. And I hope others like me, over there, are willing to fight by you, for you.
What I also and sincerely hope is that when the time to fight back, by force, comes, that resort to brutality does not become a call to unchecked violence.
So, fight back. Fight with all you got. Fight until you either drop or win. But please, please, remember you are not like them. Your victory is not about persecution; it's about ending it.
Sea Lion
I love that comic!
If they salute like a nazi then they are a nazi. Modeled after the German variety of fascism venerating Hitler etc. Neo-nazi would work I guess, but everything they've been doing is straight out of Hitler's playbook so I feel comfortable using the term nazi.
As for projection of force, you don't really have any to project. Any resistance would need to be very asymmetric in nature ie high value targets using guerilla methods. I think the difference between force and violence is semantic and really only serves as a euphemism. Moreover you need to create a spectacle of violence. Luigi mangione didn't use force.
That's your prerrogative; I respect that. It won't be small differences like those putting us on opposite corners.
Will I call the act of Mangione as brutal? Yes. But it ended there. The guy did not went on a rampage, after the man's family and others. So, it was a resort to force, not to violence.
We're seeing violence being enacted towards groups and individuals. Mass killings in Gaza, torture, starvation, exposure... that is violence.
Going up against a group, even if well organized, by attacking and eliminating key figures, that's force.
Allow me a more down to earth example: you see an ICE raid mounting. You organize a group of neighbours, hold the cops at gun point, beat the lights out of them, in extremis, a few die, and warn them they are not to come back there.
That's force.
You kill everyone, raid and destroy their station, go after their families and friends, and hit on sight every single agent.
That's violence.
It's a crowbar, not a boning knife
I'm that guy
sure, on Lemmy you’re that guy.
Good for you, I risk?
Well then you don't have a strong sense of survival or justice. That's ok. You can weave baskets while I do it. Everybody has a place.
And now you are missing the part where I state that I will fight, both for me and others. I refuse to butcher others, like the criminals we are denouncing, not to fight them.
How is fighting for survival different than butchering people who would butcher you?
Edit: to begin a better world you have to understand that your hands will have to get dirty not by choice but out of necessity to survive. Do you not have a survival instinct?
How does killing a bunch of them with crowbars begin a better world? Did that work the first time? It sounds to me like we’re trapped in a cycle.
Who said anything about crowbars? Realistically there is no cycle. A cycle means there is some kind of return to normal. Well, our assumption of normal doesn't exist anymore. Any idea of a future becomes cyberpunk at this point and your concept of a future will be sad, pathetic and relegated to slavery.
Relegated to slavery… just like the past thousands of years of human history.
How is that not a return to normal?
That's the thing. It isnt. Any democrat should consider their future as a slave. Hence the reason to fight back. There's no hope for a better future.
Here is the difference, in my view.
I will fight fascist wherever I am met with them. I'll denounce their ideals, call out their hatred and bigotry towards others, expose their crimes and atrocities. And I will fight them, to the risk of my own life, to defend others from them, if such need arises.
I will not hide behind hollow rethoric to justify killing another human being. I will not persecute a fascist's family or children, I will not execute fascists summarilly nor cruelly. I will not condone torture.
I want justice. I want fascists arrested, put to trial, sentenced to prison and put to work to rebuild every little thing they destroyed, plowing fields to feed the hungry. I will not become worst than them in the process of getting rid of them.
That's absolutely a fair point. We have differing views on the subject. I'm of the opinion that people with evil intent have no business existing.
Wrong energy.
Someone has to play that part. Why not me?
Fascists double down on their fascism in response to punishment. Dead fascists, preferably by natural causes of course, do not.
Not this new brand, the moment they're actually forced to face consequences for their actions, they tend to shut up.
You know. You might be right.
However, I think it's best to test out both possibilities in a years-long experiment. Just to be sure.