this post was submitted on 23 Jan 2025
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Meh. Lemmy is for them too, even if they are outnumbered.
Does...does it have to be?
I kinda want them here so they can be exposed to leftist ideas and become thigh-high wearing, Linux using furries.
But that's probably just me huffing hopium
"I can fix them..." ~Common thought in an abusive relationship
It's not going to work, at best they see themselves as a "missionary" whose purpose is to convert us from our "ways" and they're not going to allow themselves to be converted.
Right... But it's the answer an echo chamber? Is that what you want?
What I want, what we all should want, is for the opposing party to at least come to the table with a) defensible positions e.g. I think we should spend our taxes on Y because X NOT "Trans are icky and need to be silenced" something akin to the (facade) of conservatives of ol'
And b) come to the table with at least an open mind
I don't see any of that happening with conservatives nearly all the time and I have never seen anyone change a conservatives mind anywhere online. Like I said in another reply, I see it all the time, people on the left do engage with them. Presenting hard data, graphs, solid good sources, well structured arguments in all manner of lengths, all to be hand waved away by the Excuse of the Day™️
Once I was in a Reddit thread (might be Lemmy) awhile back where an expert deprogrammer had chimed in, according to them the only real way (their actual post was much more detailed, I wish I could find it again) to get to a conservative was IRL, through various means that boiled down to (heavy paraphrasing) reconnecting them with a "sense of belonging" in their local community. I specifically asked them how one could do it online, and was told that it's essentially a fools errand.
And now trying on conservatives I know IRL, they were right, it's fucking hard even when you have direct IRL access
There is simply too much disassociation online.
Conservatives do change. Exposure is key. We're where we are at because the rich have isolated us in echo-chambers. Speaking as a former conservative whose entire family across 3 generations shifted to the left. I caution your thinking they're a lost cause.
It's less about an abusive relationship and getting them therapy.
Some can and do, increasingly we're in an age where conservativism is a dogma akin to a religion (and often entwined with it, of course) and that won't change. I don't think we need to shun all conservatives but we need to have a low tolerance for them if they don't show that inclination. Being conciliatory to these people, by and large, is what has gotten us to this point
There's a difference between being conciliatory and letting them exist in the space. They should be called out whenever they do something wrong/stupid. They should also be allowed to exist here and we should try to correct them. We don't need to pretend they're correct or reasonable. We just need to expose them to different ideas that they wouldn't otherwise see.
I never said they should be immediately booted from the space, but talking to them - exposing them to ideas - is what got us to where we are now. "Oh, it's such an echo chamber, that's bad, everyone needs to be exposed to differing ideas". The majority do not care, they're willing to pretend to listen to ideas just so they can call you a slur and parrot their own talking points. They should be minimally engaged with and shunned unless they're willing to meet a minimum standard of decorum, because nothing else has worked
Of course it would, at least for some of them.. You can't seriously believe that people cannot change their minds, especially conservatives, who often only have their views because of living in a bubble.
Let them try. Let them actually lay out and present their twisted worldview. And if you don't want to see it or hear about it, fine, block their space. It's much more likely that they will change than it is for a leftist to change because the vast majority of leftists are actually familiar with the right and their believes. The other way around is generally a different story..
I've found it to be ineffective, sure some do "see the light", but is it worth it?
Time and time again I see others lay out (not just here but on Reddit, TT, Xitter, Nextdoor and everywhere else) for conservatives evidence, graphs, good sources, scientific studies, hard numbers, video and photos, well structured arguments that are short, medium and long on length and much much more.
And what are they nearly always met with? That's just fake news, lies by the deep State, "AI", biased news!, Lefty propaganda, demoncrat LIEESSS, LIBTURDS etc.
And yet... It only takes the right people. The little of substance are often those people. We either fight, or we risk failure at this stage.
They are not conservatives because they haven't "heard the good word", to borrow a phrase. Decades of pop culture and daily life have delivered the message that you should be a decent person, accept differences, treat others with the respect and dignity, and help those in need. They grew up exposed to those messages in movies, tv, comic books, and from their teachers, families, and mentors. They chose to disregard or actively oppose those messages. And they choose to keep doing it every day. They are just broken people. They are disgusted by those notions. They want to rid those messages from media and public discourse altogether. That's what all the anti-woke shit is. A rejection of decency, acceptance, and the desire to fix injustices. I don't have patience or the time in the day to read their bad faith self-righteous bullshit opinions that are both wrong on the face of it, and usually divorced from reality entirely. Fuck em.
In many ways I agree, but it also always depends on where they are in their journey and how much curiosity they have left. At a minimum their communities serve as a communication test bed. For example, I like to watch some flat earth de-bunkers on YouTube. Nothing they say is new to me, but its good to see how a better worded person breaks the idea down. Its like the Ben Shapiro "sell your house" meme; it sounds right for the first 10s. Sure I would sell my house and leave. Even when you know that is wrong it might not be clear how to break down the idea or what the fallacy being used is. You are right that the argumentative bad faith takers are not going to change their mind, but they are irrelevant. There will be lurkers who are curious about truth who may be deconstructing; that is who I believe the audience is around this.
Maybe someone should create a conservative@lemmy.ml for that.
This is the way.
Once we convert all the conservative morons, I forsee a utopian socialist society where everyone is without gender, without rhetoric, without hate, food and shelter is free for all, money is no longer a pursuit, scientific progress for the good of all life is the only goal, oh and everyone wears pajamas and long-legged patterned socks (Unix socks): so basically a Star Trek society.
Dem socks go from foot to pip.
Depends. Do you believe in freedom of speech and freedom of opinion? Do you want the Fediverse to be an open, decentralized protocol?
Free and welcoming are two extremely different things. I want conservatives to be free to come to Lemmy, I do not want conservatives to be welcome to come to Lemmy.
fascists and their sympathizers (also fascists) should not feel comfortable in polite company. I am saying this very diplomatically.
There is a social contract, and those who break the social contract are not protected by its rules. Fascists don't treat people with respect and deserve none in kind. Because respect is a two-way street.
If a Nazi sits down at a table and nobody objects, you have a table full of Nazis.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
I believe in freedom of speech from the government. I do not believe in freedom of opinion. Some opinions are bad, and people should be made to feel bad for having them.
ngl I dont wanna be somewhere where furries or conservartives are the main audience, we gotta have a middle ground lol
Better to have their bs called out with sources I suppose
Surely evidence will sway them. They probably just haven't ever encountered it before!
it's often really tough to 'logic' someone out of a position they 'emotion-ed' their way into.
Haha. For a few, honestly yeah. But most, probably not. But I think it's important to have that hand reached out for those who finally begin to question the ocean of misinformation they've been swimming in for decades. Others are just fascist.
You can block them (:
Oh, I do. No worries
Are you really so unsure of your beliefs that you don't welcome scrutiny? Toughen up, my friend.
Nah, I'm just old enough I don't have time to waste debating people who come to me in bad faith, and I've met too many conservatives who did that.
It's like a zoo exhibit
Well, yes, in that it's an inherent part of the fediverse. Instances can curate what they host, but even if .world and .ee removed their communities, they'd just move onto the next instance until they find one that will tolerate them.
You can block communities, though, luckily.
They're absolutely free to spin up their own Lemmy instances. However, that doesn't mean other instances have to host their comms or federate with their misinformation spreading instances
I'd defederate, don't want that content on my instance. And my users don't, either.
They can go to Reddit or x or one of the many other services the conservatives own. They should have a miserable time existing outside their walled safe spaces until they decide to stop being evil filth.
Truth social is hurting for members.
Based and equality of opportunity pilled.