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“Dying boy, 15, gets wish: losing virginity Chicago Sun Times ^ | 12/23/01 | BY BENJAMIN ERRETT Posted on 12/23/2001, 6:26:24 AM by Mopp4

A terminally ill boy had his dying wish granted in Australia this month, but ethicists are still at odds over whether it was the right thing to do. The wish was not for a trip to Disneyland or to meet a famous sports star. Instead, the 15-year-old wanted to lose his virginity before he died of cancer. The boy, who remains anonymous but was called Jack by the Australian media, did not want his parents to know about his request. Because of his many years spent in the hospital, he had no girlfriend or female friends. Jack died last week, but not before having his last wish granted. Without the knowledge of his parents or hospital staff, friends arranged an encounter with a prostitute outside of hospital premises. All precautions were taken, and the organizers made sure the act was fully consensual. The issue has sparked fierce debate over the legal and ethical implications of granting the boy's request. By law, Jack was still a child, and the woman involved could in theory face charges for having sex with a minor. The debate was sparked by the hospital's child psychologist, who wrote a letter to "Life Matters," a radio show in which academics debate ethical and moral dilemmas. The scenario was presented in the abstract, with no details about the boy's identity.

"He had been sick for quite a long period, and his schooling was very disrupted, so he hadn't had many opportunities to acquire and retain friends, and his access to young women was pretty poor," the psychologist said recently in an interview with Australia's Daily Telegraph newspaper. "But he was very interested in young women and was experiencing that surge of testosterone that teenage boys have." Hospital staff initially wanted to pool donations to pay for a prostitute, but the ethical and legal implications prevented them from doing so. The psychologist presented members of the clergy with the dilemma and found no clear answer. "It really polarized them," he said. "About half said, 'What's your problem?' And the other half said [it] demeans women and reduces the sexual act to being just a physical one."

Dr. Stephen Leeder, dean of medicine at the University of Sydney and a "Life Matters" panelist, said the issue was a difficult one. "I pointed out that public hospitals operated under the expectation that they would abide by state law," he said. "While various things doubtless are done that are at the edge of that, it's important the public has confidence that the law will be followed." Jack's psychologist, who works with children in palliative care, said the desire was driven in part by a need for basic human contact. "In a child dying over a long period of time, there is often a condition we call 'skin hunger,'" he said. The terminally ill child yearns for non-clinical contact because "mostly when people touch them, it's to do something unpleasant, something that might hurt." Leeder called the diagnosis "improbable." Judy Lumby, the show's other panelist and the executive director of the New South Wales College of Nursing, argued that the details as presented made it abundantly clear the boy's wish ought to be granted. "I said that I would try my darndest as a nurse to do whatever I could to make sure his wish came true," she said. "I just think we are so archaic in the way we treat people in institutions. Certainly, if any of my three daughters were dying, I'd do whatever I could, and I'm sure that you would, too." National Post”

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[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago (3 children)

A lot of people think the clergy are good at figuring out ethical stuff. To be fair they get a lot of education on ethics in relation to their religion. So a clergy person who operates in good faith (haha but I couldn't think of a better way to state it) could actually be a good resource. One operating in bad faith though can do a lot of damage.

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (1 children)

Oh yeah, the clergy is so well known for their ethics... If you ignore the rampant sexual abuse, and their disgustingly callous attempts at covering up by shuffling literal pedophiles to other parishes where they can continue to sexually abuse children.

But sure, if you ignore all that institutionalized, systemic sexual abuse of minors, then yeah they're great with ethics!

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 2 points 17 hours ago

Did I say they were all bastions of ethics?

[–] exploitedamerican@lemm.ee 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Where the fuck were those conversations on ethics during the spanish inquisition, or the opening of the flood gates that was the catholic church pedophilia sexual abuse scandal that seems to never end? Or had they not figured out ethics at that point?

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Unfortunately ethics education does not equal ethical actions. Ethics have also seriously evolved since the Inquisition.

[–] exploitedamerican@lemm.ee 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I would argue they’ve evolved in the wrong direction. Case in point what’s happening in gaza.

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

All of Ethics has evolved in the wrong direction? Religious ethics? Jewish ethics? Or Israeli religious radical ethics?

Because you're going to have a hard time finding someone who practices Ethics supporting Israel's war crimes.

[–] exploitedamerican@lemm.ee 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I would say the ethics of humanity as a whole. it may be hard to find someone with a true ethical backbone who supports Israel. But with every reputable journalistic outlet supporting this level of blatant war criminality it seems that in the mainstream sense at least, ethics have devolved a century in the last 50 years. Yes some people like us see a duck and call it a duck. But you cant really say that is the direction the field of ethics has headed in this time regardless of what people are being taught in ethics classes. When all the major news outlets (circularly owned by the same bunch of wall street military and prison industry profiteers) are entirely unethical then isn't it fair to say the concept of ethical behavior in our society has certainly regressed?

Where ethics matter are where they are put into practice and it seems obvious to me that ethics as a school of philosophy/social silence does not have a meaningful role in the actions of our leaders and the news outlets insulating them from consequence at every turn. Ethics have taken a back seat to continuous growth and corporate militsrism.

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

I wouldn't call journalists the heart of the field either. We certainly don't think of them as political scientists, philosophers, or economists.

[–] exploitedamerican@lemm.ee 2 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

True, but for many people who do not know any better they are the arbiters of reality.

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 points 13 hours ago

Yeah, that's something we need to change.

[–] cranakis@reddthat.com 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Hard disagree. Clergy are all full of shit and most even realize it on some level. I'd take a homeless drunk person's advice over any member of clergy. They are all pedophiles, hucksters, morons, or cultists.

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

I don't agree. I've met some clergy that obviously have a sincere belief and were willing to counsel people without bringing God into the discussion. But I will admit they seemed like they already wanted to do that kind of work; not that seminary or their church brought that out in them.

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (1 children)

You can believe something sincerely, while still being completely wrong. In fact, it happens all of the time

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 3 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)

Yep. But whether their god is real or not is beside the point here.

[–] cranakis@reddthat.com -1 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (1 children)

sincere belief....

I covered that. Those are the morons. Religious ethics is an oxymoron.

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 4 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

Sure. Be careful with those edges, you might cut yourself.

[–] cranakis@reddthat.com -1 points 17 hours ago (2 children)

🙄 I'm sure your religion is the infallible one right? I think you are also in the moron category.

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 4 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

I think you don't know me or my personal views on spirituality at all and you're making some wild assumptions.

[–] cranakis@reddthat.com -2 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

You dodging the question indicates the assumption isn't that wild.

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 3 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

Lmao. I'm under no obligation to tell you anything about myself.

[–] cranakis@reddthat.com -1 points 15 hours ago

No one said you were.

[–] Literal@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

I'm an atheist and I agree with the other person

[–] cranakis@reddthat.com -1 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

You are an atheist that listens to clergy? Why in the fuck would you ever? Seems like an astronomer saying "we should still listen to astrology, they have valid points."

[–] Literal@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

No I don't, I just think you're wrong and extremely disrespectful

[–] cranakis@reddthat.com 0 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago) (1 children)

Won't someone think of the clergy! 🙄

Sorry I'm not sweet to the religious. I'm my experience, listening to clergy ends in child abuse at worst, guilt and pressure to join their religion at best. The clergy should go get real jobs.

[–] Literal@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

I meant to me and the other commenter, not the clergy

[–] cranakis@reddthat.com 0 points 14 hours ago

Well clutch your pearls then.