If you level up, and it means your stats go up and all your enemies level up and stay at the same balance with you, it's pointless. It still affords a moment of happiness 'cool I levelled up', but in a much less satisfying way.

The point of level up early in RPG video games was, to my knowledge, so that any one with time and patience could beat a game regardless of skill. The idea of level scaling is almost the exact opposite, to remove the advantage of levelling. They cancel out and both player level and enemy level should be removed if that's happening.

That's assuming a 1:1 unversal scaling though, which is rarely the case. In the details it can be tuned to something worthwhile - which enemies scale, how much they scale, etc.

Still, my thought is when games want level scaling, they should consider why. If you want players not to overpower enemies via stats, maybe get rid of the stats (or don't change them on lvl up). Levels can still augment your player with new spells, unique abilities, or more options. Or maybe more carefully consider the placement of enemies and what their default level and stats are set at. Or maybe consider a lower level cap, or a lower range of stat values.

The possibilities are wide open, but level scaling done poorly can make level ups feel like a punishment.

[–] False@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Leveling systems come from pen and paper D&D, which was inspired from wargames where units gain experience.

[–] Glemek@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I think the place they are getting the bit about patience from is specifically dragon quest. Where the devs intentionally positioned it in opposition to other games of the time that required you to get good so to speak.

I read an interview a few years ago, I think with Yuji Horii about the design in dragon quest being set up specifically so that by sinking time in you would eventually overpower everything and progress, even if you never improved at the game mechanics. I couldn't easily find it again when I looked to link it but maybe I will be able to later today.

[–] emb@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

Yep, that is indeed what I was thinking of (though I don't have a link handy either).

Didn't mean to imply that's where experience levels were invented. The clarification is appreciated though.

And even thought I was alluding to that DQ comment, I'm sure it wasn't the first game to adapt experience levels, and across the board making things easier wasn't always the impetus.