this post was submitted on 09 Dec 2024
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[–] penquin@lemm.ee 101 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

I've always said this but got chased out of the room (downvoted to hell), peaceful protest is a bunch of bullshit and won't do shit. It never will. It's always just ignored. Rioting and violence IS the only option when protesting peacefully is ignored. I mean look at the George Floyd protests and how they actually made change. Look at the French and their protests.....etc. Peaceful protesting is quite literally a bunch of people kidding themselves.

[–] Stovetop@lemmy.world 79 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (6 children)

People love to use examples like MLK and Gandhi as the poster children for peaceful protest achieving results, and years ago I'd have naively agreed.

But the reality of it is that they could not have succeeded without the threat of violence from more militant alternatives, such as Malcolm X/The Black Panthers or the Ghadar revolutionaries/Babbar Akali Sikhs.

It's the carrot-and-stick metaphor. The powers that be will ignore any nonviolent attempts for reform until a violent movement makes the nonviolent alternative more appealing.

Capitalism has long asserted that there are checks in place to protect people. Consumer protection laws, industry regulations, collective bargaining, and voting with your wallet are some of the myths that capitalism says are supposed to stop bad businesses from hurting people. But when we see these systems failing en masse, and the powers that be refuse to do anything about it, what recourse is left?

[–] IndustryStandard@lemmy.world 24 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Both are necessary. The first creates public support. The second "creates government support"

[–] thesohoriots@lemmy.world 8 points 2 weeks ago

A little direct action can be surprisingly effective

[–] atrielienz@lemmy.world 13 points 2 weeks ago

The peaceful protest has a purpose. It is the purpose of due diligence. It is to show an escalation. A point at which other avenues were tried and ignored leaving one with no choice but to try others that are more militant. You try all the avenues. And leave the last resort as a last resort. But historically we know that more often than not real change happens when there is either the threat of violence or the actuality of violence.

People as a whole don't seem to be invested until it impacts them. It's hard to impact people enough with peaceful protest to change their minds. That's why blocking highways or major thoroughfares were threatened with violence. Because the point of protest is twofold. It is to educate. But more importantly it is to inconvenience people. Because without the inconvenience, they do not get invested.

[–] penquin@lemm.ee 10 points 2 weeks ago

Exactly. It is reaching that point where a lot of people are realizing that peace doesn't work anymore.

[–] Moc@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

People don't understand that more than protecting people, social policies such as housing, welfare, and medical aid programs protect the capitalist system itself.

[–] granolabar@kbin.melroy.org 4 points 2 weeks ago

social policies such as housing, welfare, and medical aid programs protect the capitalist system itself.

It was not always like this but yes over as 40 years the money has been looted and used against the working class.

It took wage slaves all this time but I think it is finally registering:

How is everybody working so hard, we are working more and we are more productive but nobody but few have any more money

The money is being extracted via complex legal, social and propaganda mechanisms and we are letting it happen by being obedient dogs fighting rich man's fake news stories.

[–] timestatic@feddit.org 2 points 2 weeks ago

If you take a look at europe, there is plenty of countries who score way better on these issues, and the underlying system is still capitalism. It might not be perfect but if you include a social aspect and regulate in the interest of the population I believe it is the best system we have.

[–] timestatic@feddit.org 2 points 2 weeks ago

If the political pressure was high enough, political powers would buckle. But see who got voted for president? Its clear that the people chose this themselves sadly

[–] where_am_i@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

You live in a country that couldn't elect Bernie as a president. There's no peaceful protest happening. And yet you claim violence is the only option.

In reality, half of your country simply disagrees with you. Start your violence, get a civil war, and maybe you'll finally settle things somewhere somehow.

But don't bullshit about effectiveness of peaceful protest.

Trump won a majority vote in the most recent election. Peacefully, your country chose corpos over moderate middle (there's no left in your politics). Their peaceful protest works flawlessly. You're just not on the winning side of the protest so you call for violence. You will lose this fight too.

[–] timestatic@feddit.org 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I understand why people are upset but its a sad reality, that you just don't have the masses on your side. I think your point is the crux to all of this. If a majority doesn't get behind your conviction then violence will not solve your problem.

[–] where_am_i@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 weeks ago

It's a point that's impossible to get across in this echo chamber. But it's also why this echo chamber will never achieve anything.

Via democracy or violence, for a regime change you first need to figure out a way to get the majority to agree with you.

[–] leftytighty@slrpnk.net 16 points 2 weeks ago

Organized labor can also take some non violent action like general strikes. The important thing is the organization part, once you're organized you've got power whether it's violent or not.

A smaller less organized population can definitely use violence effectively, but it still takes critical mass to affect permanent change.

Join or create community groups and labour unions

[–] beliquititious@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

If peaceful protesting worked to affect change, it would be illegal

[–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 weeks ago

That reminds me of another quote.

[–] penquin@lemm.ee 1 points 2 weeks ago

Thank you!!!!!

[–] rah@feddit.uk 10 points 2 weeks ago

and how they actually made change

Uh...

[–] baggachipz@sh.itjust.works 8 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I mean look at the George Floyd protests and how they actually made change

Did they really, though?

[–] ECB@feddit.org 4 points 2 weeks ago

Yeah, I agree with their point but I really don't think this is the example to use