this post was submitted on 20 Nov 2024
174 points (99.4% liked)
Linux
48705 readers
1237 users here now
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).
Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.
Rules
- Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.
- No misinformation
- No NSFW content
- No hate speech, bigotry, etc
Related Communities
Community icon by Alpár-Etele Méder, licensed under CC BY 3.0
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
OpenSUSE is hardly what I would consider noob friendly, but it certainly beats remaining under Microsoft's oppressing thumb.
I mean YaST is kind of snazzy, though not enough to pull me from Debian for the moment.
Yeah, I'm basically married to Fedora at this point.
Leap is surely noob-friendly.
how do they do regular updates? how do they do major version upgrades?
I think both of these is a big pain point.
They're fine for a stable release I think. Nvidia is on 550 for example. For Major updates, ping me next year since I'll try it then, when new Leap arrived.
I don't understand, sorry. what I meant is the way you as the user do upgrades. you grab a terminal, elevate and run the system update command (zypper refresh, zypper update). major version upgrades are more complicated.
I can do this sure. But this is not noob friendly the slightest. and the YaST graphical tools don't make it much better either.
I won't say that the update system of windows is good because why the fuck does searching for updates minutes, and other reasons. but the UI of it is much better. it tells you what will it update, it has a button for starting the process, an automatism for it too. there's also a menu for the update history.
Not sure when the last time you used openSUSE but the reason why I think it's noob-friendly is you don't need a terminal to update the system (talking about the KDE version here). When there is an update a notification pops up, you go to system tray, click on the icon and do the updates. You can even see a list what's been updating. It doesn't even ask a password, probably thanks to polkit.
leap 15.4, with KDE.
you mean the menu that will make your system unstable if you dont reboot immediately after updates?
if I can remember, it also does not do it automatically, by which I mean there is no setting to make it automatic.
to try to make it better I had to install a separate package, of which I have not found any information on suse documentation, to have the KDE built-in automatic update system.
and it does not work.
it restarts the system twice, after which zypper still says that all the updates need to be installed.
Not sure what that is or what menu it is. But yeah, the updates are not automatic, you have to manually start it. That "must restart after the update" thing is related to systemd, not openSUSE.
If someone wants an auto update system, that can be arranged with scripts. No idea where that could be done via GUI though. Sorry, I cannot check it right away since it's not my system. I don't use openSUSE or KDE myself.
I don't think it's systemd's fault that I repeatedly experienced general system unstability after installing updates with zypper.
By this I mean several elements of the system becoming unresponsive, like the shutdown, reboot, log out buttons stopping from working (them being pressed only resulting in a syslog error about being unable to start the program that shows the countdown), but also other programs like firefox acting weiry.
I don't think it's the fault of opensuse specifically.
And if you think about it, it's logical that this would happen.
Because version A of programs is what is still running, but the filesystem now has version B of a lot of things including executables and libraries, with lots of changes, and the assumptions for which version A programs were coded do not hold up anymore. And they crash, not even start, or do bad things. Processes that make use of D-Bus are especially sensisensitive to this, but others like firefox sometimes get tangled into it when they load a library only after the files were updated (yes I've experienced that too, both on linux and windows).
It's no wonder windows installers always ask you to close all (related) programs before installing or updating. It's not unique to windows: android kills the app when it is updated, abd system updates require a restart as well. I don't know what does flatpak do, but I'm sure that after updating the package, only after restarting its app will the changes get applied.
Not completely but kind of, all those poweroff, reboot etc. tied to systemd, though I believe this is mostly related to polkit run out of time. Can be fixed with a longer timeout. This also happens to me on Arch and yeah it's kinda annoying.
Normally updates don't change a thing on Linux since the system runs on RAM. However, with these systemd updates, things have changed. Without systemd, it's still the same more or less.
that's right, but as I remember the error was talking about being unable to launch that KDE-specufic countdown overlay. journalctl has shown such an error for every time I tried to stop the session in any of the ways.
that's not how I understand the system is working. could you elaborate?
Oh, I meant a running system. Usually you would only need to reboot if you want to use the new kernel right away after an update. For most of the programs, you don't even need to restart them if they're already running. However, if you restart them they will run as the newer updated version.
and the new version of all the software that is still running with the old version.
~~how? won't they keep being the old version?~~
oh, yeah, we agree on that. but my point is that in my experience, a lot of software gets very confused if some libs it would use or resource files have changed after they were started. often that's also the reason why holding back a package's version makes trouble over time (because certain other packages can't be updated either), or same with using custom repos that have a different release schedule or maybe are not even in sync with your distro
That's why it's recommended to reboot after a major update, and usually there is a notification for that. But there is usually no need to rush the reboot if you work on something.
If one needs a certain release of a program I guess using the AppImage version would be the best.
but that's where it becomes more serious: when basic functions of the system fail, silently. when you can't even reboot without a terminal, because the reboot dialog crashes
It actually doesn't crash, it just cannot show the requirement of the root password in a dialog. I think this can be fixed via lengthen the timeout of polkit. Though I can understand why most distros don't change the default time because of security reasons. It would be nice if they give an option for it, at least for personal use cases. However, completely removing that timeout would be a security problem, even if the only user is you.
requirement of the root password? why would it need that, when it normally doesn't? to clarify, I didn't mean the "sudo reboot" command, but the reboot button in the KDE application launcher
systemd always requires root password for poweroff and reboot commands and polkit does that for you normally when using GUI. However that problem occurs when polkit timeout runs out. I don't know the exact mechanism behind it so I cannot tell exactly when it happens. When it doesn't do that, those commands don't run via a GUI. So this is on part systemd and part the distro.
Could that be my issue? I've always done Gnome. WiFi is always broken. Network in general really.
To be fair, that sounds like a driver issue rather than a desktop environment. But you can try though.
Could be. What blows my mind is that both my PC and laptop work on Fedora, PopOS, Endeavour, and Bazzite out of the box, but network is fully broken, LAN and WiFi.
Does network work on those distros but not on openSUSE, or network doesn't work at all?
Maybe it's a switch issue? Can you try
sudo rfkilland see what's the output?They work on any other distro I've tried. OpenSUSE is the only one that never gets an address. Static or DHCP, doesn't make a difference. I'll try again with your suggestion from a USB drive, since I don't remember all the things I tried that did nothing to help. Thanks.
No problem.
Hmm, if there was a soft-block or a hard-block that would affect all the other distros as well. In that case, trying from a Live ISO would indeed help. Maybe this could be something related to Network Manager. Can you check interfaces with
ip a?Also check if Network Manager running with
systemctl status NetworkManager. If it doesn't work, start it withsudo systemctl start NetworkManager, then chekc your connection again.I use it at home just because I wanted to try something different on my laptop, I really don’t understand what some people love about it so much. It’s bot terrible or anything, I just find it a bit clunky and there’s nothing remarkably good.
The big thing it has going for it is that they set up btrfs snapshots out of the box so you can rollback if necessary.
They also do more automated testing than Arch so theoretically it should be more stable.
opensuse was my shortest experiment when i used to distro hop because of how old their software seemed to be. (ie old like debian stable).
this was almost 20 years; has it gotten better?
My first experiment with openSUSE was also not ended well back then but nowadays it's in my top 3 list when I'm suggesting distros to people.
same here; but only because of the support like red hat's and canonical's
I've tried it a few times over the years, but always find it clunky when coming from Fedora, so I end up jumping right back. It's also a real shitshow with my System 76 laptop WiFi, just doesn't play nice and takes to much work to make it functional.
i take back what i said; i just discovered that suse isn't going to support opensuse anymore.
I tried to find sources on that but failed. Could you help me out?
i was wrong. i misread the article thinking that opensuse was going to turn into an analogue similar to centos stream ending up with suse eventually sun setting opensuse like red hat is doing with centos; but no, they're ARE doing a centos stream like model but it's going to be back and forth between opensuse leap and opensuse tumbleweed.
opensuse is back on the recommended list. lol
Thank you for the clarification 😊!