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Forest of trees (lemmy.ml)

submitted 1 month ago by geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml to c/memes@lemmy.ml

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Credit: https://x.com/BanhmiBrieoche/status/1858838454546682001/photo/1

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[–] Kieselguhr@hexbear.net 66 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (21 children)

Let's bracket the "was the USSR in the right?" question, and let's ask the "how brutal was the Soviet clampdown on these two uprisings?"

1956 Hungary: 2000-3000 killed by the USSR
1968 Prague: 137 killed by the USSR

How does this compare to clampdowns by NATO countries (excluding the US)?

Indonesian National Revolution against the Dutch: 100 000 Indonesians killed by the Dutch

Algerian War of Independence: 250 000 killed by the French (French estimate) - 1.5 Million (Algerian estimate)

French War against Vietnamese Independence: 200 000 dead

Portuguese Colonial Wars: 70,000–110,000 civilians killed by Portugal

Mau Mau Uprising against the UK: "Officially the number of Mau Mau and other rebels killed was 11,000, including 1,090 convicts hanged by the British administration. The Kenya Human Rights Commission has said 90,000 Kenyans were executed, tortured or maimed during the crackdown, and 160,000 were detained in appalling conditions. "

This is a non-exhaustive list with estimates. The actual brutality is not conveyed. The war crimes are often comparable to the Waffen SS.
You get the idea: the colonial powers were incomparably worse. us-foreign-policy

[+] Rooskie91 -6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (3 children)

"Yes, the USSR performed atrocities, but the fact that the west has as well excuses that."

It's not like those are the only two instances of human rights violations by the USSR, and they're infamous for lying about numbers.

Misery is not s competition. You don't have to pick sides. There can be more than one violent authoritarian regime in the world, they can all be bad, and you can oppose all of them. There's really no reason to defend any imperial powers.

[–] prototype_g2@lemmy.ml 22 points 1 month ago

“Yes, the USSR performed atrocities, but the fact that the west has as well excuses that.”

I don't think that's what Kieselguhr was trying to say.

As I see it, they are simply pointing out that, when ever the USSR does something bad the west are quick to let you know all about it and how EVIL the USSR is, but when the west does something bad or worst, they don't seem so eager to let you know about it. It's not that the west did something bad, it's that they usually don't tell you anything about it, but at happy to show the atrocities the others have committed.

But I'm not them so I guess we could ask them to clarify.

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 17 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I actually support the side which is magnitudes less violent. And there is a difference between killing fascists like the Soviets did and killing anti-colonial freedom fighters but mostly civilians like the colonial powers did.

You can only oppose everyone if your opposition doesn't actually do anything. If you're actually affecting things your opposition of one will strengthen the other. You have to be against the US empire and for multipolarity or against multipolarity and for the US empire. There isn't a third option.

[–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 14 points 1 month ago

Deeply unserious and reactionary reply. Accomplished with signature feigned stupidity to fully sidestep the point being made.

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