this post was submitted on 08 Nov 2024
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chapotraphouse

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Ugh these people suck so bad. On average, western leftists are worse than useless. Some bullet points are kinda interesting, even if annoying.

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[–] GnastyGnuts@hexbear.net 75 points 19 hours ago (2 children)

This was another very difficult question I had to ask my interview subjects, especially the leftists from Southeast Asia and Latin America. When we would get to discussing the old debates between peaceful and armed revolution; between hardline Marxism and democratic socialism, I would ask: Who was right?

In Guatemala, was it Arbenz or Che who had the right approach? Or in Indonesia, when Mao warned Aidit that the PKI should arm themselves, and they did not? In Chile, was it the young revolutionaries in the MIR who were right in those college debates, or the more disciplined, moderate Chilean Communist Party?

Most of the people I spoke with who were politically involved back then believed fervently in a nonviolent approach, in gradual, peaceful, democratic change. They often had no love for the systems set up by people like Mao. But they knew that their side had lost the debate, because so many of their friends were dead. They often admitted, without hesitation or pleasure, that the hardliners had been right. Aidit's unarmed party didn't survive. Allende's democratic socialism was not allowed, regardless of the d'etente between the Soviets and Washington.

Looking at it this way, the major losers of the twentieth century were those who believed too sincerely in the existence of a liberal international order, those who trusted too much in democracy, or too much in what the United States said it supported, rather than what it really supported -- what the rich countries said, rather than what they did.

That group was annihilated.

  • Vincent Bevins, The Jakarta Method

Anarcho-libs / "Libertarian Leftists" love movements that maintained their moral purity by failing. As movements they're relatively easy to defend. Because they never meaningfully took power, they're never made to deal with the baggage of a real government that exists in a hostile capitalist world. Forever morally pristine and beautiful, in failure and death.

[–] REgon@hexbear.net 20 points 14 hours ago

Libs support all civil rights' movements, except the current one.
Left-libs support all revolutions, except the succesful ones.

[–] IzyaKatzmann@hexbear.net 36 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

I really need to read Jakarta Method, his recent book If We Burn is great. He does a wonderful job as a journalist weaving the historical conditions and sprinkling Lenin quotes here and there.

[–] Blockocheese@hexbear.net 13 points 14 hours ago

The Jakarta Method is a great jumping off point for further research on imperialism, if you liked The Shock Doctrine I think you'll like it