this post was submitted on 07 Nov 2024
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No Stupid Questions

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I’m only 20 years old, I’ve never voted or even really bothered paying attention to any other election, and I dunno it kinda feels like I started on one that was really crazy? But I’m not sure maybe every election has been insane and I just didn’t know because I wasn’t paying attention.

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[–] Carrolade@lemmy.world 154 points 1 day ago (3 children)

No, they've been getting progressively crazier since 2016.

2000 was fairly divisive, it went to the Supreme Court after all. But it wasn't even a fraction this dramatic, people mostly shrugged and figured GWB would be like his father, which was unfortunate, but sane at any rate. Nobody was really predicting 9/11 and the invasion of Iraq.

2004 was pretty dull. John Kerry challenged GWB but felt sort of like an empty suit.

2008 was nice, Obama was a strong and exciting candidate vs the very known quantity of McCain, who was a moderate repub known for bipartisanship. Sarah Palin provided for hours of entertaining impersonations by people like Tina Fey, but since she was the VP candidate nobody really cared.

2012 was dull. Romney was a strong candidate, another moderate repub. But Obama was fine, he hadn't broken the country or anything. Brought us out of a recession, even if people were upset about bank bailouts and stuff. Lot of people got health insurance.

Then it starts getting spicy.

[–] scarabic@lemmy.world 11 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

I actually feel a lot like I did in 2004. I felt sure that Bush’s lousy wars would be his undoing. Then people signed up for more of him and I realized “Oh, he isn’t the problem. It’s the electorate.”

You can say with hindsight that we shouldn’t be surprised, blah blah, but the truth is that a couple of days ago, most of us were saying “there’s no way people would actually RE elect this criminal, crazed, orange clown!”

And here we are. He could take a bullet tomorrow and we’d still share a country with all these deplorable people. Hilary took shit for using that word but she’s a smart lady and didn’t stutter.

[–] Carrolade@lemmy.world 5 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)

I kind of understand Bush vs Kerry. Bush had a vision. It was a crazy neocon vision, but it was a vision and he used it to communicate effectively enough that we still occasionally meme about bombing people into freedom.

Obama had a clear vision, and communicated it well. Hope, prosperity for the middle class, international leadership. Biden had a vision, a less divisive America where we came together and worked on overdue problems. Hilary didn't really, nor did Kerry or Gore. They were more policy administrator types who focused on specific policies and administration, and the idea of incremental improvement just didn't resonate with people.

Trump, for all his failings, does have a vision he is capable of communicating to the American people. Harris did too, better than Hilary anyway, but it didn't really come online until fairly late into the campaign and stayed a little too nebulous. I do think she was hurt in this regard by getting such a short campaign with no real prep time, she was evolving in the right direction.

I think we need a Bernie or AOC, someone with a powerful vision and ability to clearly communicate it, to the point of literally cudgeling people over the head with it. And we need to vote them in during the primary, over any competent administrator types, despite the fact that we are fully aware of how effective and necessary those policy administrators can be. Our valuing of them is a place where we're out of touch with the broader American electorate though.

edit: MLK Jr was good at this. He had a dream, and it was a simple one that any person could visualize in their head. It didn't require any policy expertise to understand it. We need that.

[–] gibmiser@lemmy.world 79 points 1 day ago (1 children)

And it should be said - politics should not be spicy. It should be boring. Just like investing, if things are getting too exciting you are not investing in the future - you are gambling.

[–] magic_lobster_party@fedia.io 13 points 1 day ago

Unfortunately it’s the exciting politics that gets all the attention. Democrats likely lost because they’re just too boring.

[–] neidu3@sh.itjust.works 32 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

"Obama was fine" ???

Did you not see his tan suit? The humanity...

[–] Carrolade@lemmy.world 17 points 1 day ago

Yes, he took all our guns, too. Look, there's none to be found anywhere.

[–] magic_lobster_party@fedia.io 13 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Are people forgetting his Dijon Mustard scandal? Unforgivable.

[–] Zorque@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago

Don't forget his terrorist fist jab.

[–] Anticorp@lemmy.world 3 points 22 hours ago

Dijon? Sounds like socialism to me!