this post was submitted on 03 Nov 2024
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The people who won't accept a two state solution are the bad guys, so much is clear.
To me that seems the most optimal and level headed solution, but as you can see many people disagree. A lot of people in this thread are calling for the elimination of Israel as a state, and that confuses me, because they're saying the things that Israel is SAYING that their enemies are saying, further justifying, in Israel's eyes, their own actions.
With this post, I guess I was looking for more historical facts and context on who is historically the bad guy in this situation. I've gotten some of that. I'll keep studying the situation and I think I'm going to actively try to avoid getting sucked into the idea that one side or the other should be completely eliminated. My gut just has a really negative reaction to that sort of talk.
Yeah, and the problem is that the history of the conflict didn't even start with the current state of Israel being established. There really is no simple good/bad narrative to be had. It's just a shitty situation for anyone who happens to live there.
"Why won't you accept our proposal of Bantustans, you ingrates!? You deserve genocide for this"
Let's just fight forever then. Endless hate. Only war. Is anyone who started this shit even alive anymore?
The attempt to "both sides" a genocuidal apartheid settler colonial ethnostate currently doing a genocide vs. the indigenous and regional people opposing them is disgusting. If you don't put in any work yo understand this topic, you do not need to have an opinion, let alone share it. Though it is important to be politically educated, so you should do the reading so that you can be helpful rather than counterproductive.
And re: people alive remembering how it "started", much of the leadership of the resistance are literal refugees driven from their homes in the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s. And of course it does not take much work to inform yourself of the origins of Zionism in 1800s Europe and the antisemitism a collaborating Zionist movement that built ethnocentric colonies in Palestine and eventually formed organized terrorist groups to force conflicts with the indigenous population and receive military backing from the British.
Maybe try looking at it from the point of view of the individual people living there (and having been born there for generations) instead of whatever strategic/historical layer you're on. The state of Israel exists and won't be going away, that's a fact. You can hate the injustice if you want but it would still be better if they'd finally make peace and just live in the present instead of murdering each other over the past. But neither leadership is willing to do that.
Okay, now you can continue scolding me. Don't forget to link this to Russia's attack on Ukraine!
Like I said, you need to shed this idea that you are entitled to an opinion, and to share it, having done no investigation.
Which people and where? What do they think? Have you ever actually interacted with Israelis, Palestinians? Israelis are extremely racist and support their settler colonial project and the genocide.
Apartheid South Africa went away.
Also what happened to thinking about the individual people? You didn't talk about them.
You cannot live in peace under constant occupation, displacement, and genocide. "Just make peace" is a childish idealism that means you don't know anything about this topic.
One is a gemoxidal racist occupier and the other is an occupation resistance group. Don't give me this both sides bullshit.
You should do the actual self-reflection required here. There is a genocide on. If you are going to share thoughts on this topic that defends the genociders in any way you better have spent at least a few houra educating yourself. Clearly you have not, and still have no humility about it.
You are really good at putting words in my mouth, that's been clear from your first reply.
So what's your great plan that isn't childish idealism?
Take as much time as you need to actually reply to my response.
I'm not entitled to an opinion, remember? So, please, enlighten me.
I guess you have nothing.
Same to you I guess. Oh well.
Nah I actually wrote a lengthy comment and you're chickening out lmao
Nah, I just don't want to engage with someone who started the conversation in bad faith and then never stopped. You know what you're doing, I know what you're doing, so let's just stop. I'll even let you have the last word.
Like I said, you have nothing to say in response. But you sure do want to make excuses.