this post was submitted on 02 Nov 2024
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Python Overtakes JavaScript as Most Popular Language on GitHub (www.omgubuntu.co.uk)
submitted 4 days ago by neme@lemm.ee to c/python@programming.dev
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[–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 5 points 3 days ago (1 children)

A sane language, you say.

Yes:

Operator '+' cannot be applied to types 'number[]' and 'number[]'.

We're talking about Typescript here. Also I did say that it has some big warts, but you can mostly avoid them with ESLint (and Typescript of course).

Let's not pretend Python doesn't have similar warts:

>>> x = -5
>>> y = -5
>>> x is y
True
>>> x = -6
>>> y = -6
>>> x is y
False
>>> x = -6; y = -6; x is y
True

>>> isinstance(False, int)
True

>>> [f() for f in [lambda: i for i in range(10)]]
[9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9]

There's a whole very long list here. Don't get be wrong, Python does a decent job of not being crazy. But so does Typescript+ESLint.

I’ve worked professionally in python for several years and I don’t think it’s ever caused a serious problem. Everything’s in docker so you don’t even use venv.

"It's so bad I have resorted to using Docker whenever I use Python."

[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Why would you use the is operator like that?

The lambda thing is from late binding, which I've had come up at work once. https://docs.python-guide.org/writing/gotchas/#late-binding-closures.

“It’s so bad I have resorted to using Docker whenever I use Python.”

Do you not use containers when you deploy ? Everywhere I've worked in the past like 10 years has moved to containers.

Also this is the same energy as "JavaScript is so bad you've resorted to using a whole other language: Typescript"

To your point, typescript does solve a lot of problems. But the language it's built on top of it is extremely warty. Maybe we agree on that.

[–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Why would you use the is operator like that?

Why would you add two arrays like that?

Do you not use containers when you deploy

No because I am not using Python to make a web app. That's not the only thing people write you know...

JavaScript is so bad you’ve resorted to using a whole other language: Typescript

Well yeah. Typescript isn't really a new language. It's just type annotations for JavaScript (except for enums; long story). But yes JavaScript is pretty bad without Typescript.

But Typescript isn't a cop-out like Docker is.

But the language it’s built on top of it is extremely warty. Maybe we agree on that.

Yeah definitely. You need to ban the warts but Typescript & ESLint do a pretty good job of that.

I mean I would still much rather write Dart or Rust but if I had to pick between Typescript and Python there's absolutely no way I'd pick Python (unless it was for AI).

[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Why would you add two arrays like that? Because I want to combine two lists.

The is operator is for identity, not equality. Your example is just using it weirdly in a way that most people wouldn't do.

No because I am not using Python to make a web app. That’s not the only thing people write you know… Most of what I've worked on has been webapps or services that support them :shrug:

Typescript and Python there’s absolutely no way I’d pick Python (unless it was for AI).

Agree to disagree then. We could argue all day but I think it's mostly opinion about what warts and tradeoffs are worth it, and you don't seem like you have no idea what you're talking about. Sometimes I meet junior developers who have only ever used javascript, and it's like (to borrow another contentious nerd topic) like meeting someone who's only ever played D&D talking about game design.

[–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 1 points 3 days ago

The is operator is for identity, not equality. Your example is just using it weirdly in a way that most people wouldn’t do.

The + operator is for numbers or strings, not arrays. Your example is just using it weirdly in a way that most people wouldn't do.

I'm not defending Javascript's obviously terrible behaviour there. Just pointing out that Python has obviously terrible behaviours too. In both cases the solution is "don't do that, and use static analysis to make sure you don't do it accidentally".

Sometimes I meet junior developers who have only ever used javascript, and it’s like (to borrow another contentious nerd topic) like meeting someone who’s only ever played D&D talking about game design.

Yeah I think you can generalise that to "have only ever used one language". I would say Python and Javascript are pretty close on the "noob level". By which I mean if you meet someone who has only ever written C++, Java, or Rust or whatever they're going to be a class above someone who has only ever written Python or Javascript.