this post was submitted on 19 Oct 2024
819 points (98.6% liked)
Technology
59116 readers
2900 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Soooo noone here even read the article? Just see Elon and start shitting everywhere? The company suing X was dealing with Twitter before Elon. There was no purchasing contract in place when the suing company placed the $20 million dollar order they are claiming is all custom made and cant be recouped, "the social media platform had not made any firm purchase order when the server dealer went ahead with its purchases and deliveries."
How about we read an article before we start spewing shit everywhere?
When you read the article, it also points to another article that goes further into this case.
Seems it was already approved in 2014 for such a long-term relationship in writing. It seems that Elon just didn't want to pay for it even though Twitter was contractual bound to pay.
Which is the whole point. If they had 1 email, 1 PO, 1 documented proof of agreement, this would never be a fuckin court case. What is more likely, that X is risking liability for the $20M + legal costs in court trying to renege $20M down to $18M? All this suing company has to do, as I stated above, is show one acknowledgment and confirmation between the two parties and its an open and close case.
There was a judge (I'm going off memory from hearing it on the radio a year or so ago) in Canada who held a farmer liable for responding to a text with a thumbs up to a contractor asking if he got the contract he sent the farmer. Farmer went into court with the defense he was acknowledging that he received the text but it wasn't enough to convince beyond reasonable doubt there wasn't an understanding between the two.
If Twitter and Elon were trying to weasel out of paying this company, THEY WOULD BE SUING THEM for some made up breech of contract BS like they're doing to advertisers.
They have one, the contract signed in 2014. As is mentioned in the quote I shared.
Contracted =/= Court approved documentation
Ever heard of a verbal contract? It's a legally binding agreement unless everyone from the contracted party was fired and you don't have any fucking proof of the conversations with people no longer employed by the company you are suing.
So for the third time THE COMPANY SUING DOESNT HAVE THE PROPER DOCUMENTATION SHOWING THERE WAS A PURCHASING AGREEMENT. THATS WHY THEYRE SUING AND NOT GOING FOR A SUMMARY JUDGMENT
Like what the fuck are you even arguing for or against? That this company is going thru this expensive and lengthy court process to get judgment for the money they are owed for shits and giggles?
Here is another article that says they assumed Twitter accepted liability:
The complaint also says that Wiwynn, which makes servers and storage systems for data centers and cloud providers, had amassed $120 million worth of parts to fulfill Twitter's existing orders, under the assumption that Twitter had taken liability for them.
Summary judgement is not a thing separate from a lawsuit. It's literally a standard filling made in nearly every lawsuit (even if just as a hail mary). You referenced "beyond a reasonable doubt" earlier. This is also not the standard used in (US) civil cases--it's typically a standard consisting of the preponderance of the evidence.
I'm also not sure what you mean by "court approved documentation." Different jurisdictions approach contract law differently, but courts don't "approve" most contracts--parties allege there was a binding and contractual agreement, present their evidence to the court, and a mix of judge and jury determines whether under the jurisdictions laws and enforceable agreement occurred and how it can be enforced (i.e., are the obligations severable, what damages, etc.).
Again, they have a court approved document. As per the lawsuit filing:
And a master purchase agreement is a legally binding contract.
You're leaving out that the paragraph you're summarizing starts off with "X claims that."
One side says there was a contract. The other side says it wasn't firmed up yet into a binding contract. Neither side has come forward with their evidence.
Also, Wiwynn is also suing for negligent misrepresentation and promissory estoppel, which don't require a contract.
So read my other comment and cited quote pulled right from the fuckin court documents and reported on by MSN. Fuckint hell. It's in every fucking article I've searched. The suing company isn't going off anything but fucking assumptions.
The "court documents" are filings by the parties. You're summarizing litigation documents filed by Twitter, in a motion to dismiss, which is a phase of litigation before either side comes forward with any evidence.
The court hasn't ruled on anything, so you're just repeating statements that one side has claimed. I'm pointing out that the other side is claiming the opposite.
They're not required to come forward with evidence (and litigation procedure doesn't even give them much of an opportunity to come forward with evidence at this stage). What they have come forward with is literally sealed by the court, so unless you're leaking confidential court documents you don't have any idea of what they're claiming. Take a look at the docket.
If you're going to be aggressive in this comment section, at least learn the very basics of the thing you're being aggressive about. It's clear you don't know the basics of this type of litigation, so it might help if you show some intellectual humility, take a step back, and let the knowledgeable people actually weigh in, to be able to evaluate the publicly filed documents in an informed way. Whatever it is you're doing instead, looks pretty bad.
You think that companies just slap down 20mil without a contract in place?
Hahaha yeah otherwise they wouldn't be trying to sue to recoup losses. It happens all the time in sales. I can't even tell you the amount of times I have told new sales reps, I will not place anticipatory PO's without payment confirmation or full compliance with not just the purchase order's parameters for payment on large orders but also an email or otherwise documented acknowledgment of our sales order confirmation. Especially in any case where:
The sales rep has a PO from customer but no payment confirmation/information OR
If it's an order over, let's say $10,000 OR
If it's the first time customer is purchasing from us and they want to make a blanket order OR
If they're an international customer placing ANY orders over $500, or have seperate countries for billing and shipping address, or they're shipping to a country on our "fuck shipping to these countries" list
All those scenarios happen and happen often. Theyre not 100% of nepharious lost revenue cases but I'd say they make up 80-90% of the shit companies have sitting on a warehouse top shelf. Only getting moved to make room for other stuff.
Any business doing fabrications or custom fuckin anything, also will 100% of the time have a signed drawing or print, payment in full before it's released to production floor, usually a +/- 5% runoff or shorting stipulation for any qty over 1,000-3,000 custom anything, and constant communication through out the entire process.
For this exact very real very common shit storm.
Everything this lawsuit outlines, fuckkn screams new business, 1st large contract. All the need is one email, one purchase order, fuck even just a sales order from Twitter and they wouldn't ever make it close to a court house before the Twitter boardmembers looked at the liability, the legal costs and the very slim liklihood they would come out better than if they paid the $20 million. And anyone who argues that $20 Million is enough to try and skip out on and risk letting it go to court has no fucking idea to the quantifiable difference between $20 million and $8-$20 Billion (what im guessing Twitter is still worth assuming it was about $40B when Elon bought and estimates have it between 50% and 80% the value when it sold. Even at the middle $14B, $20M is only 0.14285714% of $14B. No that's not a mistake the decimal is where it should be lol. Check it by multiplying $14B*0.0014285714
Wywinn is a 12 year old $7 billion in revenue cloud infrastructure provider (originally a subsidiary of Wistron Corp) and represents 10-15% of worldwide server procurement...they are pretty serious and come from a very serious business background.
Wtf "cant be recouped" means for servers?
Good luck lol. The top comments are almost always people that didn't actually read the article, just the headline. I see it on practically all social media sites, not just Lemmy.
If you've been in IT since '98 you ought to know this isn't a social media site lol. It's a social forum for communities of users with like minded interests. Most daily social media users get weeded by any UI that isn't 1-3 giant app buttons to sign you into everything on every device you ever did and will own.
Lol plus not many people here are absolute fucking psychos like you with your Lemmy profile pic hahaha fuck you are a madman lol.
Forums are social media, especially so for sites like Reddit and Lemmy where the subforums are community-created.
Wikipedia:
Merriam-Webster:
Britannica: