this post was submitted on 16 Oct 2024
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[–] Fish@midwest.social -3 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

It seems like they're using multiple strategies in an effort to put pressure on the Dems. Some are saying that they are going to vote for Trump even though they are also anti-Trump. Their logic is that Kamala is actively contributing to a genocide, whereas Trump is not.

I doubt there is anything they can do to actually make Democrat politicians feel pressure, but I do agree with their sentiments. I'm not voting for some who is pro-genocide. Trump is both pro-genocide and fascist. I'm also not going to vote for a 3rd party candidate because most 3rd parties focus on the presidential race more than they focus on grassroots efforts.

[–] Feathercrown@lemmy.world 33 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Their logic is that Kamala is actively contributing to a genocide, whereas Trump is not.

This is literally the most braindead political take I've ever heard, and that's saying a lot

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 18 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

It's a classic "technically true, but not particularly useful" information tidbit. Harris is in office, Trump isn't.

Of course, you could argue that Vance - as a powerful member of the US Senate - is participating in the genocide while Walz - a governor of a midwestern state with no meaningful role in foreign policy - isn't. Equally true, but meaningless.

The problem Harris has isn't that Trump gets innocence-by-default by being out of office for four years. Its that she's doggedly clinging to the "both sides" framing of the Israeli genocide and scaring off Arab-American voters as a consequence. It doesn't matter whether Harris is better or worse than Trump when the baseline of US policy is the mass slaughter of your friends and family.

[–] ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 8 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

It’s a classic “technically true, but not particularly useful” information tidbit. Harris is in office, Trump isn’t.

Harris is in an office that is entirely powerless (yes, she casts a vote in the event of a Senate tie, but no bill funding Israel has come down to that). She and Trump have nothing to do with the (current) Palestinian genocide.

[–] Cryophilia@lemmy.world 7 points 2 weeks ago

The problem that Harris has is the mountains of propaganda working against her.

Not saying she's perfect, but in a practical sense the spin matters FAR more than the facts.

[–] Fish@midwest.social 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I agree that it's a bad take. But at this point I think that they're desperate, trying anything they can to get Kamala to change course. It's an urgent issue that can be solved easily: just stop supplying weapons and aid to Israel. Four years from now, most Palestinians living in Palestine will already be dead.

[–] Feathercrown@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

That loses older uninformed democrat voters unfortunately

[–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 8 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

it's not just uninformed voters, my grandfather is a retired history teacher and, he firmly believes that while Isreal is in the wrong, that it's not in the US best interest to drop them. He's worries that the destabalization of the area further will invite other foreign adversaries to invade it while also losing basically the only is friendly territory around. He's worried it'll be a repeat of the last time

[–] Feathercrown@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

I mean, that does make sense actually...

[–] Feathercrown@lemmy.world 16 points 2 weeks ago

Voting is a strategic choice, not an endorsement. You should vote for the candidate who you would rather have in office.

[–] Fedizen@lemmy.world 14 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I mean they're naming an illegal settlement after trump and Netanyahu is explicitly advocating for trump. What's crazy is polls show Kamala would get like a 6 point poll boost by breaking with biden on this and saying something a little more forceful about a peace deal, such as a deadline where arms deals are halted. It would almost singlehandedly secure michigan.

[–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

At this point, I wonder if opposition to Israel is dangerous for the lives of Western leaders.

[–] Fedizen@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I think its more that they're afraid of being labeled antisemitic by the media and there's pressure from the military to maintain status with Israel.

Edit: I don't think people really understand how brutal the corporate media is about Israel. If you want an example, Jeremy Corbyn criticizes Israel and the labor right manufactured a fake antisemitism crisis which the corporate press used to throw the election.

I don't blame Kamala for trying to sit the fence given the past behavior of corporate media on this topic. Its possible the fascist genocide of Gaza by Netanyahu has opened the door to more criticism but I expect at least fox news to gleefully accuse democrats of being the "real nazis" if they drift even into skepticism of Netanyahu.

[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 14 points 2 weeks ago

Their logic is that Kamala is actively contributing to a genocide, whereas Trump is not.

Even though he literally is, has put the Israeli Embassy in Jerusalem, and has advocated for the deployment of nukes in Gaza...