this post was submitted on 09 Oct 2024
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If you believe exploiting a conscious AI being would be immoral, please hear me out (discuss.tchncs.de)
submitted 1 month ago by lalo@discuss.tchncs.de to c/vegan@vegantheoryclub.org
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First, let's define being conscious as at least having a mind that is aware and has a will.

Maybe there's and argument if the being wishes to be used, but the argument I'm going to make is not about that.

The following is said without judgement because it's something I've done for most of my life before noticing and taking action.

If we recognize that a being (organic, silicon based or whatever) with a conscience should not be exploited and used against its will, there is no reason we should not apply the same principle to the animals we exploit and kill daily when we pay for their products. They should have a right to at least not be exploited.

Please take that into consideration and know that you can take action to stop this injustice. Check out the sub for more info and feel free to ask anything in the comments or DM me.

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[–] Antitoxic9087@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 month ago (3 children)

on the flip side, under what criteria will further utilization of ai become exploitation to the machine and considered an issue in the vegan movement?

[–] lalo@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 1 month ago

Once the machine has a conscience, they should have their will respected.

[–] hamid@vegantheoryclub.org 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Veganism is an animal rights movement and these silicon based manufactured machines are not animals.

[–] Antitoxic9087@slrpnk.net 1 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I think we need to be cautious about this type of animal vs machine thinking, since ultimately all existences are "manufactured" in one way or another, and the main component (carbon or silicon) should not be a relevant criterion in morality. The ability to feel pain or form other forms of complex sentients, IMO, should.

[–] hamid@vegantheoryclub.org 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I don't really give a shit about computers or machines. I will never accept machine life on the same level as biological life that comes from earth. Veganism is an animal rights movement, fantasies about computers thinking is a waste of time when there are billions of now sentient lives that are abused, tortured then terminated at will.

[–] lalo@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 1 month ago

I agree that veganism is about the animals, but why do we care about them? Is it not their consciousness that make them morally significant?

I see no distinction between conscious beings, be them from this world of not, carbon-made or not.

Btw I'm not trying to create AI-ganism or anything like that. My purpose with this post was to help non vegans that care about this problem make the same connection with the animals they exploit.

[–] Well@vegantheoryclub.org 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Another counter point is there is no proof computers can process pain, since they do not have pain receptors.

[–] lalo@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 1 month ago

It's not about feeling pain, is about their will to live.

If the argument is only about pain/suffering, then 'ethical' meat becomes a thing and people would still ignore the being's will to live.

[–] Antitoxic9087@slrpnk.net 1 points 1 month ago

honestly I think this discussion is probably a few decades ahead of our time, and were it not for op I would never raise it in this sub. there will probably come a time, however, when I consider supporting ai rights morally imperative. in any case I agree animal rights are more urgent and real atm.