this post was submitted on 16 Sep 2024
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[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 46 points 2 months ago (14 children)

Obviously, I do t know anything that's not in the article...

But...

We're looking at drafted soldiers, and officers that were likely career military before...

There's a reason why America stopped doing that even if the kids today don't know where "fraggin" comes from.

In Vietnam, it wasn't just because they hated their Officer, it was also if their last one got killed legitimately and the new guy was obviously going to get you and your buddies killed. In that environment, it doesn't matter if your officer is trying to get you killed or is incompetent.

And especially today with all the media and propaganda, it's hard to say this one was some kind of spy or intentionally causing Russian causalities.

But its just as likely he's an old school "a soldier is a soldier, stop playing video games" type of guy.

To the troops that can look like intentional sabotage. When troops start thinking their officers will get them killed...

I can't think of a nation off the top of my head that won a war like that.

The closest would be when the Nazis invaded Russia and any Russians that ran got shot by the Russians behind them.

But that wasn't their officers. That was the officers and troops behind them that would be doing the same thing in days or even hours.

If Russian troops start thinking the best way to stay alive is kill their officers, we're gonna start seeing a lot of dead officers, especially with Russia's reliance on criminals and mercenaries these days.

[–] totallynotaspy@fedia.io 21 points 2 months ago (5 children)

I boosted because for the most part I agree, however the 40k style commissar executions by the Soviets was wildly overblown by Hollywood and the joys of the First Cold War (imo, it either never ended or began anew in the past 20 years).

I dug around to find some relevant info:

These barrier troops operated by apprehending retreating troops and sending them back to the frontline. When this was not possible, retreating troops were detained to await trial. Although they had orders which allowed them to shoot deserters and “cowards” on the spot, and while this most certainly did happen, it was not the norm. Of those detained and found guilty (around 900,000), roughly 422,000 were sent to penal battalions where they would continue the fight against the Germans by performing the most dangerous jobs. This number accounted for around 1.5% of those who would serve in the Red Army during World War II. Another 436,000 were imprisoned

An example of these ratios can be found in an internal list from the NKVD regarding the Battle of Stalingrad from 1 August 1942 to 15 October 1942. According to the list, 15,649 soldiers were picked up by barrier troops. Of these, 244 were imprisoned, 278 were shot, 218 were sent to penal units, and 14,833 soldiers were returned to their units.

So these blocking units were technically being operated by NVKD orders and officers, and according to their data, the vast majority of retreating/deserting troops were sent back alive (to die on the front line). Also for context for any readers unaware, the NKVD was the predecessor to the KGB, much like how the US had their OSS more or less turn into the CIA.

Couple quick sources since I'm too lazy to dig through my Russian history textbooks: https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/11/05/the-soviet-army-once-shot-its-own-troops-for-retreating--the-russian-army-could-do-the-same/ https://www.thecollector.com/soviets-in-world-war-ii-myths-and-misconceptions/

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