The instance system is confusing for new users and they might not even realize that they're missing out on a lot of content by signing up to the wrong instance.

In the end it's just a bunch of centralized websites sharing content if the admins feel like it and sure you can create your own instance but another admin can decide to defederated from yours anytime they feel like it, that's still a lot of power in the hands of a single person...

Both front and back end need to be decentralized and also separated from each other. Make all content available to all and have people develop a UI to access it, let the users curate their feed.

This way people sign up on one page and can use the same credentials no matter what page they go to, the competition for front end devs is to offer the best UI, the development for the hosting part is what's done as a community on GitHub or whatever...

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 10 points 2 months ago (3 children)

I always point new users to Lemm.ee nowadays.

another admin can decide to defederated from yours anytime they feel like it, that’s still a lot of power in the hands of a single person…

All of the top 20 instances ask feedback from their communities before defederating. They know that if they don't, people will switch instances in two clicks.

[–] mke@programming.dev 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

This isn't an absolute rule. Of course they don't (and shouldn't) ask for feedback before cutting off Nazi instances, but it's not always so clear.

.world defederated from fosstodon and I'm still unsure why.

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

.world defederated from fosstodon and I’m still unsure why.

Have you asked on !support@lemmy.world ? Could be spam issues too

[–] mke@programming.dev 2 points 2 months ago

No, thanks for suggesting. I saw a thread by other curious users and checked fediseer. Might be an admin issue, but I didn't see clear evidence.

Don't think it was spam as, unless I'm misunderstanding, that seems unlikely from fosstodon.

[–] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

Most people won't switch though, they won't want to lose their username, their feed and so on, we're creatures of habits...

Hell, trolls could go around and recreate accounts on the top 100 instances with the same username users have on other instances to prevent them from reusing the same username elsewhere, just that is a weird concept to explain "Oh yeah, someone else can create an account and pretend to be you and unless people notice that the instance they're from isn't the same, there's no way to know it isn't you!"

You're sending users to Lemmy.ee but in the end it's an instance controlled by one person paying the hosting fees and with the last word on what goes on on their server.

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 9 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (50 children)

Most people won’t switch though, they won’t want to lose their username, their feed and so on, we’re creatures of habits…

You can keep your username, export and import your subscriptions and block list in two clicks from the settings.

Hell, trolls could go around and recreate accounts on the top 100 instances with the same username users have on other instances to prevent them from reusing the same username elsewhere, just that is a weird concept to explain “Oh yeah, someone else can create an account and pretend to be you and unless people notice that the instance they’re from isn’t the same, there’s no way to know it isn’t you!”

"You are bob@gmail.com, but someone could create bob@outlook.com and pretend to be you"

Also, this kind of impersonating would probably get the trolls banned.

You’re sending users to Lemmy.we but in the end it’s an instance controlled by one person paying the hosting fees and with the last word on what goes on on their server.

Lemm.ee had 5 admins. The main one has been very clear that he keeps defederation to a minimum: https://lemm.ee/post/35472386?scrollToComments=true

Of course you need to trust him and his team.

If you prefer a paid model where you have a customer relationship with the admin, you might to have a look at https://communick.com/services/lemmy/

The owner is @rglullis@communick.news , who commented below

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[–] lambalicious@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 2 months ago

Hell, trolls could go around and recreate accounts on the top 100 instances with the same username users have on other instances to prevent them from reusing the same username elsewhere, just that is a weird concept to explain

Yes but that doesn't mean you should get automatic dibs on a name everywhere. It's just a name. If you are Joe Bill at lemm.ee, that does not give you any rights over the name Joe Bill all across the world. Statistically speaking, there's at least 18 thousand other Joe Bills around at this very moment.

Like, this is something that is already solved by the instance's moderators.

[–] SorteKanin@feddit.dk 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I always point new users to Lemm.ee nowadays.

Most people are not interested in moderating their own feed. Leading people to an instance that does very little moderation on the defederation side of things could push them away. In that situation, they are likely to just leave the fediverse altogether and less likely to go to another instance I would say. I respect lemm.ee as an instance but I would not recommend it as a "gateway drug" to the fediverse.

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The issue is that

LW is too big
SJW has a non neutral name
Lemmy.ca advertised itself as Canadian
Feddit.org has a meta community in German

There is Lemmy.zip, but they are also very light on defederation. Lemmy.dbzer0 blocks lemmygrad but still federates with hexbear

Do you have any other suggestion?

[–] SorteKanin@feddit.dk 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Yea... I get what you mean. There isn't really an instance that is "not zero defederation"-moderated and general enough for all people if you take out lemmy.world. That's honestly kind of surprising, it feels like a niche that more players could fill. But I guess that's how lemmy.world got as big as it did.

If you had to give one suggestion, maybe. But still, any instance matching geographical location or a specific of your interest would be better.

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[–] SorteKanin@feddit.dk 7 points 2 months ago (8 children)

In the end it’s just a bunch of centralized websites sharing content if the admins feel like it

The whole point of the fediverse is having a choice of admin. That democratizes the space because people can choose where to go. The point is not to rid yourself of admins entirely (or at least not without just becoming your own admin, but then there is still an admin, it's just yourself).

Make all content available to all and have people develop a UI to access it, let the users curate their feed.

Sorry but the vast majority of users are not interested in curating their feed. Most people don't want to also be moderators. I mean fuck it's difficult to even recruit mods for even medium-sized communities. Most people don't like "absolute free speech" and want some level of moderation. Making all content available is not a path towards healthy platforms - it runs into the nazi bar problem instantaneously.

I won't even comment on the herculean technical challenge of doing it in the way you describe, but even if it was possible, I don't think it's actually desirable. It sounds good on the surface, but that's about it.

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[–] rglullis@communick.news 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The issues are describing are real, but can be solved with better clients.

[–] Linus_Torvalds@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

Interesting read!

[–] mke@programming.dev 3 points 2 months ago

What you're describing sounds closer to how atproto is supposed to work, but it's yet unproven in regards to decentralization.