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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27No_Way_to_Prevent_This%2C%27_Says_Only_Nation_Where_This_Regularly_Happens
We (Americans) will never give up our guns, especially if you are working class.
We should continue to help fund to uphold our 2A rights.
Gun safety and training should be an option for everyone.
Do you really think Gun Safety Training would have prevented this one?
Everyone who makes this absurd argument knows it won't. They just want to keep their stupid toys and don't care about the lives it costs, so they muddy the waters to delay actual action on preventing these needless deaths.
Every time there's a systemic problem in the US, someone shows up to make a proposal that puts a very small band-aid on the problem at best while making it much more deeply entrenched in the long-term and consequently more of a problem (in the above examples, we have respectively more guns and gun culture, more investment put into generating energy via coal, more infrastructure for plastic, and more car infrastructure). Basically, "I don't want my guns taken away ever, so the solution I'm going to come up with is that everyone has them and so the actually effective solution of restricting them becomes literally impossible." Their solution doesn't just not work; it actively causes more deaths while serving their own self-interest.
I honestly don't think, in this specific case, it matters either way. This was a murder-suicide by an insane person. They could just as well have used poison or a knife.
I don't think guns were the root of the problem in this case. It sounds to me like this guy was fucked and almost certainly not getting the support he needed. If he was living at home and had a "hoarder" amount of tools he likely didn't have anywhere to go. Assuming he was getting a even cut of the sale1/5 of the return on a house wouldn't be sufficient to provide for another house to keep that stuff. Obviously he did a horrible thing but this probably could have been avoided by not letting him get into such a desperate situation in the first place. It's a failure of society.
"gUnS dOn'T kIlL pEoPle, PeOpLe KiLl PeOpLe" is always fun to see trotted out. This was a failure of society to keep a shotgun out of the hands of a deeply mentally unstable man, and every rational country in this respect is either laughing at Americans who make this ridiculous argument while their gun violence rate is multiple orders of magnitude lower than ours, or maybe they just don't have it in them to laugh and just feel bad over the mountain of corpses America makes and then just says "well we just need better mental health and then everything will be fine bro".
Any mental health professional worth their salt will tell you that giving someone access to firearms simply increases the likelihood for impulsive murders/suicides.
Okay so say he didn't have a gun, he's still in a desperate situation. As long as he only has the capacity to kill himself it's fine?
Mental health intervention is important, but you can't intervene when someone is dead.
My point is that everyone focuses on the wrong problem when shit like this happens. Guns are a distraction. Society is failing people like this and he should have received help long before he ever got to the point of crisis. He was looking at losing his home, you can't therapy your way out of that and it's not something he nor anyone else should ever have to fear. The only reason we even hear about things like this is usually because someone lashes out violently or harms themselves. If there were proper safety nets in place to provide for them they could be surrounded by guns and not have an issue (barring actual mental problems that make them dangerous but these would also be caught if people were getting proper care).
What did the 2A solve in the modern days though? Where is that need for a Militia?
Haven't needed one yet. Might need one in the next few upcoming years if things keep going as poorly as they have been. The second amendment was intended for citizens to protect themselves from invading forces and malevolent American government alike. We haven't yet had a desperate enough need to exercise it in such a fashion, so instead it's merely built up a gun nut culture in America. But it's there for such times as we find ourselves approaching.
I sincerely, desperately hope it doesn't come to that. But I'm comforted by the fact that one of the favorite tools of my possible enemy is one that also guarantees I am never defenseless.
The same could be said about nukes. You hope they're never needed, but the fact that they're there helps keep things in check.
Does it really though? It certainly doesn't level the playing field between those who have nukes and those who gave them up to get a guarantee of sovereignty...
That's why americans don't what to give up their guns.
The military has drones though, that can used against the population at any time. How do you defend against that with arms from the civilian market? Or just tanks.
It is a matter of scale and tactics.
For scale, the US Army has ~4700 tanks according to the internets. Assuming they have a matching number of crews and can put them all into service, that's 94 tanks per state. That sounds like quite a bit until you consider the coverage of a state. If we take NY as an example, that's 0.0017 tanks / square mile. The military will be pinning down only small areas at a time with armor.
For tactics, no reasonable person expects to take on a tank with a pistol. The deterrence of an armed populace is in the scale and ubiquity of resistance. There are ~3M personnel in the US military from cooks and secretaries to special forces. They are outnumbered by firearms-owning civilians 76 to 1. The odds are bad. The military has force multipliers (tanks, bombers, drones), but deploying them effectively against the civilian population is not easy. Who are the combatants? If no one is standing outside waving a rifle, where do you drop the bomb, or fire the cannon? You could level an entire neighborhood and hope to destroy some of them. Will the non-rebellious populace remain on your side if you do this? An effective resistance will wait until the tank or plane is stopped to refuel and resupply, and then destroys the operators.
There is also the question of logistics. When operating abroad, part of the formula for success of the US military is their unbreakable supply lines. They bring everything from fuel to food to tools and don't need to rely on local supplies. But all those things are sourced and shipped from the US.. When the fight is on home soil, these supplies cannot be guaranteed. Sabotage of roads, bridges, pipelines, and railroads could significantly hinder the operating capacity of the military.
When speaking as any one person remaining armed as opposition to government tyranny, it is not as "Rambo," but as a thorn on the vine. Collectively there are many thorns and any attempt by the government to crush the vine will result in a lot of pain. You make the option as unattractive as possible.