this post was submitted on 19 Jul 2024
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I was raised reform Jewish and am half Jewish by family history. I have ancestors who were victims of the pogroms in the Russian pale of settlement – specifically, all four of my great-grandparents on my father’s side, along with their parents (my great-great-grandparents). When they were children their families fled and eventually resettled in the USA.

There is another place that they could have gone instead: Palestine. At that time it was still part of the Ottoman Empire, and some of the displaced Jews of that time did elect to go to Palestine. As it happens, my ancestors chose the US, but they could have gone to Palestine if they’d wanted to.

The fashionable posture on the left to take towards Israeli Jews recently has basically been a combination of glibness and vitriolic hatred, often reaching the point of wishing death upon them (examples: 1 2). I don’t know… I just can’t really feel good about stuff like that. The fact that my family ended up in the US and not Palestine is really just a quirk of fate. I don’t think that my ancestors were, like, morally better people for choosing the US over Ottoman-era Palestine. (And given the recent uptick in “Turtle Island” discourse, it seems like a fair number of leftists believe my ancestors shouldn’t have been allowed to resettle in the US either.)

I think that Zionism (with the possible exception of cultural Zionism) has generally been a noxious idea throughout its history. I don’t think the state of Israel should continue to exist as it is currently constituted, and I think the near-ubiquitous racism among Israelis is shameful. But I also don't think that every Jewish person who moved to Palestine in the last 150 years was a bad person for doing that, and I’m not prepared to circle-jerk over the deaths of people that I have a fair amount in common with historically.

Am I missing something? Have I been hoodwinked by Zionist propaganda?

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[–] RyanGosling@hexbear.net 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Well, there’s nothing wrong with not hating all Israelis. I guess the question is, would you still have leftist views if your ancestors chose Palestine? The majority of Israelis support Israeli nationalism, and those who support a two state solution, nominally or not, do jack shit to actually make it happen. edgeworth-shrug Of course, much of it is learned behavior, but… so what? Much of the bootlicking for capitalism, imperialism, and fascism is learned behavior. Not everyone who does it will stay a bad person forever, I’m sure most of here know, but if they happen to suffer while in the middle of being a bad person? It’s unfortunate they didn’t get a chance to redeem themselves, but not gonna shed a tear either.

Likewise, I wouldn’t be too upset if Native Americans or literally anyone from the global south hated all Americans and those who become Americans. Like even though “death to america” is an expression against the government, there are times where I am truly indifferent to the suffering of westerners and wish it happened more.

And even though I don’t consider myself American, I would still understand if they hated me because their communities are ignored and abused while I get to benefit from the suffering of the world. That’s not to say that you’re benefitting from zionism (we all benefit and/or contribute to it indirectly), but if I were an Israeli leftist, I would understand why people hate Israelis.