Conservative
A place to discuss pro-conservative stuff
-
Be excellent to each other. Civility, No Racism, No Bigotry, No Slurs, No calls to violences, No namecalling, All that good stuff, follow lemm.ee's rules, follow the rules of your instance, etc.
-
We are a Pro-Conservative forum. Posts must have a clear pro-conservative, or anti left-wing bias. We are interested in promoting conservatism and discussing things that might get ignored elsewhere. All sources are acceptable, however reputable sources with a reputation for factual reporting are preferred.
-
Dissent is allowed in the comments, but try to be constructive; if you do not agree, then provide a reason which is backed up by references or a reasonable alternative interpretation of the provided facts. That means the left wing is welcome to state their opinions, but please keep it in good faith.
A polite request, not a rule, if you feel the need to report a comment, please don't reply to it.
view the rest of the comments
“Collective punishment” is when you punish an entire group for the infractions of a subset of that group.
The idea here is to punish the same set of people seen as breaking the law. “Collective punishment” in this case would be like deporting an entire neighborhood if an undocumented immigrant is discovered in that neighborhood.
Firing someone for asking for something is obviously wrong. Not familiar with the case but I assume they actually broke some kind of rule such as not showing up for work? Was it a strike, this event?
If they literally only asked for these things, then it’s wrong to punish them for that. I doubt this is the case, and it’s just a matter of minimizing language.
But if the set of people actually breaking the agreements was the same set of people who got fired, then it’s not an example of “collective punishment”.
If Reagan fired entire teams of air traffic controllers, whenever any subset of any of those teams broke the agreement, then it would be collective punishment.
Yeah that’s collective punishment. That violates the conservative value.
Smells like, except that coming to the US is not something anyone is entitled to. It’s definitely religious discrimination, which is against the values of our country. Any kind of ethnic or religious discrimination violates the values of our country.
Assuming we are talking about the same rights as non-LGBTQ people are afforded, this isn’t conservative at all. It’s a place Republicans diverge from conservative values.
Republicans are often not conservative.
Again, sloppy with the concept of “punishment”. Making an act illegal is not punishment.
Furthermore the legislation I’ve heard of is about denying this “care” to children. Same way we deny alcohol, guns, and driver’s licenses to children.
If trans adults are being targeted with a ban on surgical procedures on their bodies, then while technically not “punishment”, it’s still discrimination and it’s wrong.
I don’t know enough about the situation to know whether this is “punishment” or not.
I’ve heard reports both ways. I’ve heard both:
The latter is definitely collective punishment. But furthermore there’s nothing even remotely conservative about sending weapons to Israel. Insofar as Republicans are voting for it, those Republicans are violating conservative values.
These days, conservative values just aren’t very present in how the US government works, period.
“systematic” killing is a precise term about a precise thing. It refers to efforts like the Nazis or the Japanese undertook with their camps during WW2.
In Gaza there is indiscriminate killing. You said the set of (women, girls over 14, and children under 14) accounted for 57% of Gazan deaths during the Israeli campaign. Is that the same proportion that this subset of people makes up in the population? If it’s a larger proportion, then yes it’s evidence that women, girls over 14, and children under 14, are being targeted systematically.
But the munitions being used aren’t targeted at these groups. They’re indiscriminate.
The deliberate choice to use indiscriminate munitions, when more targeted methods are available, would definitely be collective punishment. I don’t know enough about the situation to know.
I would suspect that if any demographic group is being systematically targeted for elimination, it would be the complementary set of (males over 14).
The ratio of that group in the population, compared with the ratio of the deaths, would give an indication of whether there is indeed demographic targeting happening.
I know that systematic slaughter of fighting age males is a common trope of history, so it wouldn’t surprise me if these guys make up less than 43% of the population of Gaza despite accounting for 43% of the deaths.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply.
You make a good point that there is a difference between republican and conservative. It reminds me of those who confuse democrats with leftists, and conflate liberals with socialists.
I see that some of the examples given are not collective punishment, just good old fashioned persecution.
No.