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this post was submitted on 29 Jul 2023
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Android
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Google keeps locking tons of Android features away behind their own privatized software stack.
Better for Google, but they are cutting their nose to spite their face here, as Android as a whole suffers for it.
Stuff like call screening in the android dialer would be possible on any brand of device. But no, pixel only.
The pixels have the very best android experience. It comes close to iPhone. But pixels aren't the whole market. Overall Google is trying to claw back control of the entire platform and I hate it.
There needs to be a 3rd mobile platform that isn't tied to Android. I really wish the Ubuntu phone took off, but Linux on mobile in general would be a really good thing... stock Debian or something. Then if an OEM wants to make their own distro to customize some things they can. I know this is done with Android today, but the ties to Google and the conflict of interest will also make that a weird relationship. I think the road for that will be very long without some corporate backing to fund full time developers for it.
The problem of android is that it is "fake opensource". The OS itself is open source but google locks it down with GMS so google still controls everything.
Bingo.
AOSP is open source. Cool. In order to make AOSP useful to 99% of the population you need Google Play Services, which aren't open source. To get Google Play Services you need to agree to install 20+ non-removable Google apps, none of which are open source.
Not only Google services. If you want to make a phone you need to buy SoC from Qualcomm or MediaTek and all the drivers for it are proprietary (often including Linux kernel modifications). Sure you can technically make your own but it's impossible for 99% of phone makers.
There wont be a 3rd platform for the same reason that America wont have a 3rd Political Party.
You'll never edge out the incumbents.
Mobile operating systems aren’t winner take all like a political election. The existence of a 3rd party doesn’t hand a win to one side or the other. It could also help the incumbents avoid some anti-trust issues.
Especially when the biggest current one, Google, did everything in their power to stop a fantastic 3rd platform in Windows Phone from becoming successful.
Not really sure they needed to lift a finger tbh.
They did though. Windows Phone was pretty rapidly gaining marketshare in the US and also in Europe at one point - I believe they hit 10% which is massive for a new OS.
Google's response to this was to block any and all third party apps for their services, even when they broke no rules. Read up on the shitshow that was Youtube on Windows Phone to see just how aggressive they were in making sure Windows Phone died. They also refused to put any of their services on the platform.
Actually there's a third platform being developed, based on Linux, by Puri.sm with their Librem 5 phone.
And they're as likely to stay around as the Green party is.
Hello, it actually exists and they started developing it with crowdfunding (now it seems like they are self-sustaining with sales)..... Do you know Puri.sm?
They started some years ago creating a new Linux phone, the Librem 5, and they are developing firmware support and a mobile GNOME interface around it that also other project, like PinePhone, is using.
Yeah, I’ve watched some videos on a few different phones and different operating systems, but they all seem very early in development and more of hobby devices rather than anything someone can use as their daily driver. At the current rate it seems like it will be decades before it’s ready for prime time.
yes, it's true that they're still not ready as daily driver for not-geek people
Interesting… not long after I replied to this, I saw this post on Lemmy about Purism maybe not being so pure. I don’t have time to watch it all now, but figured I’d pass it along. Either way it’s it seems like the best Linux experience is using Ubuntu touch on an old Pixel 3a, still being tied to Google at least with the hardware, and it’s an old phone.
https://lemmy.world/post/2378785
thank you for the link...it's speaking a bit fast for me as English is not my main language but I got the point. I would be curious to ask directly to Purism people what they think about this.
Also I would consider /e/os with Murena Fairphone 4 as a good compromise and a safe choice.
Ah, yeah, New Yorkers aren’t the easiest to follow. I got a chance to watch the full video. The main points, which you may have gotten, were that Purism didn’t honor refunds, and the security/privacy which they claim is very surface level and doesn’t stand up to any scrutiny.
Yes, I watched it with subtitles and understood the 2 points explained....thank you anyway for the recap!
RIP Windows Phone
And WebOS. I know it’s still exists on LG TVs, but that shitty HP CEO killed it before it even had legs. What an idiot, he tried to shut down HP’s PC division too. He didn’t last a year in the role and WebOS was the biggest casualty. A lot of design elements from WebOS are now seen in modern phones, like the card based multitasking and swipe to close.
If you have any corporate backing wouldn't it turn back into same situation as Android? Maintaining the app store, build tools, making new features, patching vulnerabilities e.t.c all require massive amounts of capital. Why would a company openly take initiative to do that? Meanwhile all others could free ride on it? Also any OEM's coming in and customizing it to their liking and not following the standards because they are not bound too like in Android, wouldn't that cause massive fragmentation. Back in the Symbian days this was the case where you need to customize your app slightly for each Symbian device, which meant you had to have the physical device. I remember back in the back in the day your office would be filled with these devices.
Major linux distributions get a lot of contributions from corporations that don’t compromise them to the whims of the company. The same model could be used. The companies contribute, because it ultimately benefits them, even if others can also benefit.
Fragmentation would likely be an issue, as we see with traditional Linux systems. However, systems like flatpak have helped standardize application distribution. Some of they fragmentation can also be seen as providing choice to users. As long as they all share the same protocols to talk to each other, which have been pretty well established by now, it shouldn’t be a huge issue.
First of all major corporations contribute to Linux kernel and there is very little contribution to a distribution. Why are they doing it? Because they benefit from their hardware being supported by Linux kernel(e.g Samsung contributing to Linux Kernel for SSD drivers) and now they can sell more, they can do this because it works with their business model. That is not the case with smartphones, in the smartphone world they are selling directly to a consumer and they need to do everything they can to differentiate themselves from other Smartphone makers. Mozilla tried the business model you mentioned but it didn't catch on. Lastly you forget to understand the number of apps available on Google Play vs on Flathub. Google Play has ~3.5 Million Apps vs ~2000 Apps on Flathub. We are talking a different scale here
Also speaking about Flathub, Flathub solves the issue of fragmentation by building an entire OS on top of another OS just to avoid the challenges of backwards compatibility. This has implications like huge app sizes because you are basically downloading the runtime and everything it depends on for each app. It works for most people because storage is cheap and can be upgraded at least in PC world. But still you will have issues with RAM because most flatpaks don't share the runtime and you need to need load each runtime to memory and this implications like higher memory usage, slower app start times because you need to load the entire runtime first before even you start the app.
Ideally, a standard would be made for app distribution that everyone could align to so they don't have to resort to something with the overhead of Flatpak. In terms of the numbers of apps... I don't think anyone really needs ~3.5m to choose from. I need 1 decent task app, not the 10,000+ that are probably out there.
Other OEMs also have their own features that are exclusive to their own phones. They can also implement them into AOSP, but they don't. Instead, they keep the features to their own devices. A lot of times when there's a new feature on Android in general, more often than not you'll see comments like "Samsung had this since years ago".
So if other OEMs are allowed to have platform specific features, Google is allowed to have theirs too. Or in other words, if you want to hold Google responsible for holding back Android, you have to also hold other OEMs responsible too.
Google owns the platform. You're not really comparing like to like.
It's like saying since Google can modify some files in Windows that Microsoft doesn't control the platform.
Sony upstreams many of its changes, but you're right that Samsung does not. This is both because of differentiation, but also because often the changes are in defiance of the "official" Google spec in android and merging is refused.
One plus for example offers further customization on gesture input that is missing in Android 13, allowing corner bottom swipes, hiding the little nav line, etc. But this cannot merge.
Google has decided a "solution", to hell with if your features are better. I would love to see these features in android mainline. But Google won't allow it. Sony made a theme system years ago, but Android wouldn't fully merge it, and took another 5 or so years to make something.
You complain that I'm not comparing like to like, yet you're taking Windows, a closed sourced operating system, as an analog to AOSP, an open sourced one?
But why are other OEMs allowed to differentiate, and Google is not?
Yes, Google has the "official control" of how Android should be, and not all OEM changes are in line with that. But contributing upstream is not the only way to make the Android ecosystem open.
Take for example, Galaxy Watch with WearOS. There are multiple features that the watch can do, ONLY IF ITS PAIRED WITH A GALAXY PHONE. I have a Galaxy Watch 4. It has ECG and Blood Pressure sensors. But I can't use it (officially), because I don't have a Galaxy phone. Why? Because Samsung is keeping that exclusive with a software lock that totally doesn't have to be there. Measuring ECG and Blood Pressure doesn't need anything from my phone, it's all on the watch.
Another example also regarding using Galaxy Watch with a non Galaxy phone, which is even more absurd, is that if you're using a Galaxy Watch with Galaxy phone, they will sync DND status between them, but if you're not using a Galaxy phone, it'll not sync. They literally added codes for it to not work on non Galaxy phone.
Also, the example you used in your original comment, the call screening feature, uses language models that Google paid for the development and trained. I think it's fair for them to uses that technology that they invested in to help boost their own profit instead of just giving out for free.
Well no, they can't just implement them into AOSP - the owners of AOSP have to approve any and all changes into AOSP. Who's that? Google.
I agree with the rest of your post, but not this. The best android experience to me is the one that isn't the most locked down, but the one that is most open and customisable - Samsung. I've got a few pixels, and funnily enough my last Pixel I owned was what lead me to switch to an iPhone. I figured if I was going to have a heavily locked down non-customisable phone, it may as well be the one that's the best at it, which is the iPhone.
How exactly is a Pixel locker down and not customisable?
One thing that drive me nuts on Pixels is how uncustomizable the launcher is. Can't even change basic things like the grid size or whether I want Google widgets locked permanently on the homescreen. Then, if you replace the launcher, gesture navigation gets all janky.
This. I have a pixel and i despise the launcher. Google search bar locked to the bottom of every screen, google calender locked to the main screen. The 3 buttons navigation bar is the worst i have seen and has zero customization options.
Why not load a rom(that supports relocking) and lock it?
On the launcher you can change basically nothing. Can’t move or remove the at a glance widget or the google search bar that takes precedence over your app bar. Can’t change the size or number of quick setting icons. Can’t change icon packs. Can’t change the grid size. Can’t change the task switcher look.
You can basically change nothing other than the accent colour.
You can literally change the launcher.
And you still literally can’t change the quick settings tiles or the theming etc.
Also changing the launcher fucks up gesture navigation.
There's decent customization for the quick settings tiles, what are you looking to do? Also never had changing the launcher fuck up gesture navigation. I use NeoLauncher without any issues at least.
What customisation for quick settings tiles is there? I want to be able to have 12+ on screen at once if I want to, I want to be able to change their size, etc. I don't want them to be those huge arse ugly blobs.
It's a known thing. Google basically slightly broke gesture navigation for third party launchers, likely intentionally. It still works, but it's buggy and worse than on the default launcher.
I think it's beneficial for Google to distance itself from Android. By default, it's way too entangled with Google services. It would be nice to have Google call screening on every Android device, but is it really that far fetched to expect manufacturers to develop their own suite of features? I wouldn't expect iOS to have Android's features of vice versa.
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The AOSP dialer is based on an older version. Google removed it going forward.
Agreed, but then why not make an api for your "open operating system" so users of Samsung/One Plus /Sony/etc could see the dialer with their call screening /assistants if they so choose?
Instead of just removing the dialer entirely. https://www.androidauthority.com/google-kill-android-aosp-dialer-messages-app-3334980/
There is a dialer api but you need signatureOrSystem protection level, which is why it does not work, unless a user on a rooted phone makes the app a system app. I haven't checked how it is now, but back in S3 days, I had a rooted S3 with Google Phone dialer and it worked fine.